From Hard Times to Brighter Days | Blessing Offor

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I remember very specifically getting out at JFK and falling in the snow.

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Yeah.

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And looking up at him being like, let's go home.

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I don't like this.

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Welcome to A Heart for Space.

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I am your host, Dr. Eiman Jahangir

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Join me as we uncover what it takes to reach beyond the limits of what we think is possible and turn the biggest dreams into tangible reality.

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Thank you so much for being here today with me, Blessing.

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My pleasure.

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I mean, I guess no one knows, but we were fortunate enough to meet, Blessing and I, at a TEDx mixtape event, which was very cool.

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And I was very excited to meet you.

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I felt like it was nice to connect on a lot of levels.

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And so I asked you to be here today, and I really appreciate you for joining us on Heart for Space.

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I love this.

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This is amazing.

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You're 10 minutes from my house, so...

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I know.

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And honestly, you're the first person in Nashville that I've interviewed.

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So normally we do this online, but this was awesome to be able to do it in person.

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So thank you for making the effort and coming out to my house, which is my studio today.

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I love it.

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Thank you for the chips.

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Oh, yes.

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We skipped that part.

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We did skip that part.

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So I guess my first question for you is for someone who hasn't heard of you, how would you introduce yourself at a like a party?

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Yeah.

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I think that's pretty good.

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I guess to dive into that more, I know some of your backstory, but where did you grow up?

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What were you like as a kid?

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Nigeria.

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I was precocious, to say the least.

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My siblings would say annoying.

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Yeah.

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My siblings would also say spoiled.

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Yeah.

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I was the last born of six kids.

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And if you know anything about Nigerian culture, probably Iranian culture is similar.

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The last born is just spoiled rotten.

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We, I mean.

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Six kids is impressive.

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I mean.

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My parents took the go forth and multiply very seriously.

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So.

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Honestly, I, you know how when you grow up, you don't realize how good you had it till you get older.

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I had a really amazing, idyllic childhood in Nigeria.

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Like my dad had businesses.

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We lived great lives.

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You know what I mean?

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And

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So the older I got, the more I realized I was probably not the same for everybody.

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True.

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Came to America when I was six to live with my uncle in Connecticut.

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Again, did not realize how good I had it.

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Yeah.

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Until I got older.

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Yeah.

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discovered music, actually.

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So came to the States to treat glaucoma.

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Okay.

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So I was born with congenital glaucoma.

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Okay.

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Optic nerve was dead in the left eye, vision in the right eye.

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Very good vision in Nigeria.

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And for the first few years I was here,

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Um, didn't realize I got to go to Yale and that was a big deal.

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Oh, that's right.

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That's why, part of why you went to Connecticut, I guess.

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Yeah.

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So I went from Nigeria where they barely knew what was going on to Yale where they knew everything going on.

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Yeah.

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You know what I mean?

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So they put in stints and shunts and all the things to like stabilize the vision and this, that, and the other thing.

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And that was awesome.

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Uh, and then when I was 10, I got shot in the eye with a water gun.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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In the eye that was the good eye.

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That's crazy.

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And it detached my retina.

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And so it was one of those weird freak accents.

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Yeah.

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Was it a super soaker?

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It was a very massive super soaker.

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Yeah.

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We had a super soaker when we were kids, my brother and I.

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We had it for all of but three hours because we went after my cousin.

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And to this day, she still gives us a hard time.

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And she, that was it.

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They went straight back to the store.

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Yep.

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And, you know, it's just like you don't,

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It's such a, it's a toy.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Oh, absolutely.

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You never know how a thing can go.

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Yeah.

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And so, you know, it's like people, people when they're around me, they're like, oh my God, do you care about this water gun?

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I'm like, no, it's a water gun.

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Yeah.

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Things can happen so crazy.

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And my doctor was like, if it was anybody else's perfectly normal eye, wouldn't have done that.

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Oh, interesting.

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This eye was just.

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the, it was glued together with proverbial scotch tape.

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I mean, how did you as a young kid handle being in all those procedures?

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Because you're like, oh, it was great.

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I had shunts and this and that.

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I mean, that sounds like a lot for a sub 10 year old kid.

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Yeah, it was, you know, it's funny, like Yale to their credit and you're a doctor, I'm sure.

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I'm sure, you know, like atmosphere is everything.

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Yeah.

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And Yale, the atmosphere is.

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was incredible.

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You know what I mean?

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The nurses loved me.

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Every time I'd had an appointment on the calendar, I was like, I know Corrine's going to bring me chocolate chip cookies.

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Oatmeal cookies.

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So Corrine was one of my favorite nurses.

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And

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Just, it was good.

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It was good memories, even with surgeries, right?

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Like, I know that, okay, I have to get an IV in the hand, and that's not fun, but then I get this.

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So they handled it very well.

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Post-water gunshot to the eye.

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You know, we were then, okay, let's reattach the retina.

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Okay, there's scarring on the retina.

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Let's go take care of the scarring.

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Okay, the scarring created more scarring.

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You know what I mean?

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And by the time I was 14, Dr. Bruce Shields sat me down.

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He goes, hey, you know...

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if we keep poking at this eye, we might nick the optic nerve and you don't regenerate that, right?

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He goes, since there's a little vision in it now, why don't we leave it and see where medical advances get you down the road?

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Because they'll have a live optic nerve to deal with.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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So he goes, but my fear is if we keep...

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you know, doing our doctors.

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Messing with it, yeah.

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You're going to make something worse, right?

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And so I always say, what an amazing doctor to know when to say, hey, why don't we stop?

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Yeah.

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You know what I mean?

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So it takes a guy who doesn't want to play God.

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Yes, no, very hard to say no, I think, sometimes.

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He's like, I can keep coming up with things we can try.

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Yeah.

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But he goes, my fear is just leaving it off, leaving it worse off.

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Yeah.

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And that was like a really seminal, I was just old enough to realize that was an amazing thing he did.

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Well, it is true.

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I mean, if you look at medical advances, and I don't know much about eye stuff, but like in cancer, for instance, things that would kill you 20 years ago, like people survive now.

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Absolutely.

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Because we've gotten better medicines.

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We've learned better procedures.

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So, I mean, that is smart.

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And that was wise.

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And still have an optic nerve, still have a little bit.

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Yeah.

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And it stopped.

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That's amazing.

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So, I don't know.

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That was one of those moments that like struck me as really impactful.

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Yeah.

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So like, there's a wisdom in knowing when to stop.

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Absolutely.

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And beyond the eye part though, like what was the transition?

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Like, I mean, I think it would be a transition to go from like Tennessee to Connecticut, but like from Nigeria to Connecticut, how was that for a six year old boy?

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I, so my uncle played soccer for the Nigerian super Eagles.

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That's how that's awesome.

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Yeah.

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He played professional, like international soccer.

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Um,

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I remember very specifically getting out at JFK and falling in the snow.

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Yeah.

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And looking up at him being like, let's go home.

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I was not full at all.

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I don't like this.

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So you came in the winter then.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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He came in late January, early February.

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Yeah.

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And I was like, let's go home.

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And he goes, it doesn't work like that.

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We're here.

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Yeah.

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He goes, don't you remember it took us 12 hours.

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Yeah.

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Like we had to fly from.

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No, from Port Harcourt and I think through London or something.

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Like I remember doing flights, right?

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And he goes, no, no, no, no, we're not going anywhere.

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He goes, he's like, we're here for a while.

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And we went to Connecticut and the adaptability of a six-year-old is incredible.

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Like the sheer...

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plasticity of your mind and your brain and your everything.

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Like all of a sudden I was in Connecticut and I spoke English from home, but the English you speak from home is very different from English.

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Yeah.

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And so within three months, my uncle always says my accent was gone.

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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And then because it's me, because I come from this very resilient family, because I was so used to being the favorite and everybody likes me.

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Within six months, I had all the friends.

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That's nice.

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And then, you know, the, you know, I was like,

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I want to talk to my dad.

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I want to talk to my mom.

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I want to talk.

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So this is like 96, 97.

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Yeah.

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Phone calls were expensive.

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Oh yeah.

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Right.

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There was no internet.

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Correct.

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And so I remember one month we had made $3,000 of phone calls, of long distance calls.

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And my uncle sat me down and he goes, Hey,

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We can either keep calling them all the time, every day, or we can send them money home.

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Oh, yeah.

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And he goes, what would you rather?

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And I was like, I want to call them every day.

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And he goes, no, that's the wrong answer.

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He's like, I tried, blessing, I tried.

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That's funny.

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Because I very specifically remember those little bits of...

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decisions.

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Yeah.

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Like my uncle, he's a lawyer now, but like back then he was working three jobs.

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Yeah.

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And going to law school and he was a social worker.

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He had a master's in social work before, you know, immigrant.

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Yeah.

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Like we talked about.

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And so he's like, okay, they need us.

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And I know we want to talk to them every day.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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For hours and hours and hours, but they need this money more than we need to give it to the phone company.

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You know, I'm like, no, I want to talk to him every day.

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That's why you're a child.

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And it's crazy because now you could talk to him.

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Because now the Internet has made it.

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But in 1996, forget it.

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Now, you started with music when you were quite young, too.

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Yeah.

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I guess what led you down that path?

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Is that something you did?

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Was it like your uncle was like, you're going to do music?

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Or you just kind of came to it?

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I remember two-key Casio keyboard.

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That was like this.

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Yeah.

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Right?

256
00:10:29.115 --> 00:10:31.960
And I remember hearing music on the radio and being like, boop.

257
00:10:32.930 --> 00:10:33.811
just trying to pick it out.

258
00:10:34.051 --> 00:10:34.832
I thought this was cool.

259
00:10:35.393 --> 00:10:43.361
And, but even from back home, Africa, Nigeria, my family, in particular, very musical, right?

260
00:10:44.142 --> 00:10:47.045
Church, culture, just everything was music.

261
00:10:48.346 --> 00:10:50.768
So I had music in my, in my brain.

262
00:10:51.509 --> 00:10:54.330
And then I had this Casio keyboard and I tried to figure things out.

263
00:10:54.791 --> 00:10:56.772
And then, of course, there's got to be a girl involved.

264
00:10:56.812 --> 00:11:00.073
So my third grade girlfriend was a piano player.

265
00:11:00.593 --> 00:11:03.135
And I was like, I want to do everything Rachel does.

266
00:11:03.255 --> 00:11:05.596
And so, you know, I...

267
00:11:06.782 --> 00:11:09.263
did all that because, because, because she did.

268
00:11:09.563 --> 00:11:13.904
And to this day, I feel like every time we text, I always go, you started this.

269
00:11:14.124 --> 00:11:15.325
You know what I mean?

270
00:11:16.205 --> 00:11:24.527
And, and she got mad because I took piano seriously and then she moved and I was like, I guess I could quit piano now.

271
00:11:24.567 --> 00:11:26.208
And I was like, no, I don't want to quit piano.

272
00:11:26.508 --> 00:11:27.348
You liked it by then.

273
00:11:27.368 --> 00:11:27.848
I liked it.

274
00:11:27.888 --> 00:11:28.189
Yeah.

275
00:11:28.249 --> 00:11:32.450
So, um, took it seriously and right around when the water gun thing happened, um,

276
00:11:33.170 --> 00:11:37.594
here's kind of the, the, the fates, you know, God working.

277
00:11:37.654 --> 00:11:37.894
Right.

278
00:11:37.914 --> 00:11:38.174
So, yeah,

279
00:11:39.147 --> 00:11:40.008
Accident happens.

280
00:11:40.368 --> 00:11:41.649
This eye is very fragile.

281
00:11:42.269 --> 00:11:44.151
They say to me, hey, we need you to sit still.

282
00:11:44.471 --> 00:11:44.691
Yeah.

283
00:11:44.711 --> 00:11:46.652
Let all this surgery take.

284
00:11:47.193 --> 00:11:47.693
You know what I mean?

285
00:11:47.973 --> 00:11:50.956
Your head jostling back and forth from running around won't be good.

286
00:11:51.176 --> 00:11:51.336
Oof.

287
00:11:51.696 --> 00:11:55.599
So I had this whole few years where I really had to be still.

288
00:11:55.979 --> 00:11:56.319
Yeah.

289
00:11:56.359 --> 00:11:58.121
Guess what doesn't take a lot of jostling around?

290
00:11:58.421 --> 00:11:58.741
Piano.

291
00:11:59.502 --> 00:12:01.763
And so I was just playing piano.

292
00:12:01.843 --> 00:12:02.083
Yeah.

293
00:12:02.103 --> 00:12:04.145
The only thing I could do fully.

294
00:12:05.652 --> 00:12:08.174
Music was not physically demanding.

295
00:12:08.194 --> 00:12:11.657
So all my 10, 11, 12-year-old energy went to this thing.

296
00:12:11.897 --> 00:12:12.157
No.

297
00:12:12.758 --> 00:12:14.359
And then that was it ever since.

298
00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:17.281
Is piano still preferred or do you like guitar more now?

299
00:12:17.541 --> 00:12:18.662
I love both.

300
00:12:18.742 --> 00:12:19.583
Okay, that's fair.

301
00:12:19.683 --> 00:12:20.344
Yeah.

302
00:12:20.524 --> 00:12:22.285
Piano is... You love both your children.

303
00:12:22.345 --> 00:12:23.606
Correct, exactly.

304
00:12:23.626 --> 00:12:25.267
Piano is where I don't have to think.

305
00:12:25.508 --> 00:12:25.828
Okay.

306
00:12:26.088 --> 00:12:28.029
Guitar is where I still...

307
00:12:29.175 --> 00:12:31.496
I still consciously think about it.

308
00:12:31.576 --> 00:12:32.516
Piano, I play.

309
00:12:33.016 --> 00:12:34.296
Guitar, I'm getting better at.

310
00:12:34.316 --> 00:12:34.977
That's interesting.

311
00:12:35.017 --> 00:12:37.537
So piano is like speaking your native tongue.

312
00:12:37.557 --> 00:12:37.937
Correct.

313
00:12:38.237 --> 00:12:39.358
Guitars of foreign language.

314
00:12:39.378 --> 00:12:40.298
Sometimes I have to translate.

315
00:12:40.358 --> 00:12:41.458
Yeah, that's interesting.

316
00:12:41.618 --> 00:12:42.618
Yeah.

317
00:12:42.678 --> 00:12:43.739
When did you pick up the guitar?

318
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.159
Was it when you moved to Nashville or was it back?

319
00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:54.602
I did very specifically learn the lesson of Nashville, which is you should probably play guitar because it's hard to carry a piano around with your writer's route.

320
00:12:54.622 --> 00:12:55.202
So you know what I mean?

321
00:12:55.302 --> 00:12:55.882
Absolutely.

322
00:12:56.882 --> 00:13:01.826
Uh, somewhere in the, in the, in the Nashville process, I said, I gotta play guitar.

323
00:13:02.407 --> 00:13:03.748
So I picked it up.

324
00:13:03.828 --> 00:13:05.769
I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get good at this.

325
00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:09.992
It was, it was like, you know, piano, easy.

326
00:13:10.152 --> 00:13:12.354
Here was a built in time to get good at piano.

327
00:13:12.794 --> 00:13:14.856
Guitar, it's like the mechanics are different.

328
00:13:15.616 --> 00:13:18.318
Um, once you go into a couple of chords, you think, you know, everything, right?

329
00:13:18.439 --> 00:13:19.519
And you realize, no, you don't.

330
00:13:19.760 --> 00:13:19.980
Yeah.

331
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.001
And, and so I.

332
00:13:21.841 --> 00:13:23.865
It's been a really great journey.

333
00:13:23.905 --> 00:13:27.833
And now I'm way more fluid, but you still see the mountain.

334
00:13:28.254 --> 00:13:28.535
Yeah.

335
00:13:28.555 --> 00:13:29.056
I mean, so...

336
00:13:31.081 --> 00:13:35.162
I would say it's probably been 10 years on guitar note.

337
00:13:35.362 --> 00:13:36.002
I write on it.

338
00:13:36.142 --> 00:13:37.302
I perform on it.

339
00:13:37.522 --> 00:13:39.383
I have a lot of them at this point.

340
00:13:40.103 --> 00:13:41.103
I have a lot of them.

341
00:13:41.123 --> 00:13:43.263
I have a lot of guitar at this point.

342
00:13:43.443 --> 00:13:47.844
But it's, I think sometimes you got to do the thing that still makes you feel like a child.

343
00:13:48.004 --> 00:13:48.244
Yeah.

344
00:13:48.604 --> 00:13:56.686
And because guitar is still a new language, I still play it like a kid, which is kind of cool because I can, what is this?

345
00:13:56.726 --> 00:13:57.166
What happened?

346
00:13:57.286 --> 00:13:57.847
Yeah.

347
00:13:58.327 --> 00:13:59.588
Piano, I know so well.

348
00:14:00.169 --> 00:14:03.573
I kind of, I can get repetitious on it sometimes.

349
00:14:03.593 --> 00:14:03.693
Yeah.

350
00:14:03.773 --> 00:14:04.333
You know what I mean?

351
00:14:04.353 --> 00:14:05.975
So that's kind of the pros and cons.

352
00:14:06.035 --> 00:14:06.756
That's interesting.

353
00:14:07.336 --> 00:14:08.257
Yeah, I mean, I agree.

354
00:14:08.297 --> 00:14:13.803
It's, I never grew up, I mean, I took piano lessons as a kid, but it wasn't, I didn't get into it.

355
00:14:14.364 --> 00:14:16.946
But as an adult, I tried to pick up stringed instruments.

356
00:14:16.966 --> 00:14:18.007
So it's like guitar and,

357
00:14:18.866 --> 00:14:19.566
and banjo.

358
00:14:19.666 --> 00:14:20.807
So it is fun to learn.

359
00:14:20.847 --> 00:14:21.347
And I agree.

360
00:14:21.387 --> 00:14:24.709
It is good to try to flex your mind too, in a way.

361
00:14:24.849 --> 00:14:27.010
I mean, and for you, it's your career, right?

362
00:14:27.030 --> 00:14:27.911
Singer, songwriter.

363
00:14:27.951 --> 00:14:28.471
He pays bills.

364
00:14:28.651 --> 00:14:29.412
He pays bills.

365
00:14:29.452 --> 00:14:30.712
He's not paid by bills.

366
00:14:30.732 --> 00:14:33.114
I remember I played saxophone.

367
00:14:33.474 --> 00:14:34.094
Oh, very cool.

368
00:14:34.114 --> 00:14:37.536
From middle school through beginning of college.

369
00:14:37.836 --> 00:14:38.056
Yeah.

370
00:14:38.116 --> 00:14:38.997
And eventually I was like,

371
00:14:39.913 --> 00:14:45.056
what's going to pay me more of the saxophone or the guitar?

372
00:14:45.116 --> 00:14:47.597
And so I quickly put down the saxophone, you know?

373
00:14:47.617 --> 00:14:50.099
So it's like, sometimes you got to make practical choices.

374
00:14:50.219 --> 00:14:53.661
Like, you know, the thing where you go, I'm going to play every instrument ever.

375
00:14:53.681 --> 00:14:56.522
Like that seldom leads you to master anything.

376
00:14:56.682 --> 00:14:59.844
So it's just, you got to make sacrifices.

377
00:15:00.004 --> 00:15:02.065
And when did you know music was going to be it?

378
00:15:02.966 --> 00:15:04.647
Like that was the career you were going to...

379
00:15:05.617 --> 00:15:10.701
Honestly, pretty early on, when you're a kid, you always say, I'm going to do this.

380
00:15:10.981 --> 00:15:11.282
Oh, yeah.

381
00:15:11.422 --> 00:15:12.242
I'm going to be an astronaut.

382
00:15:12.262 --> 00:15:12.883
Yeah, exactly.

383
00:15:12.963 --> 00:15:13.103
Yeah.

384
00:15:16.437 --> 00:15:17.017
a songwriter.

385
00:15:17.037 --> 00:15:18.198
And my mom's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

386
00:15:18.818 --> 00:15:19.999
And everybody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

387
00:15:20.019 --> 00:15:30.925
Because again, the immigrant thing is you, especially Nigerians, I'm sure, you become a doctor, you go into finance, you become an engineer, you become a lawyer, something very...

388
00:15:31.305 --> 00:15:33.546
Stable, predictable, professional.

389
00:15:33.686 --> 00:15:36.628
And so me going, I want to be a songwriter, ha, ha, ha.

390
00:15:36.808 --> 00:15:37.869
Oh, you're only 11.

391
00:15:38.049 --> 00:15:38.529
Ha, ha, ha.

392
00:15:38.629 --> 00:15:39.610
Oh, you're only 13.

393
00:15:39.970 --> 00:15:40.430
Ha, ha, ha.

394
00:15:40.790 --> 00:15:41.831
Oh God, you're 17.

395
00:15:41.931 --> 00:15:43.092
You're moving to Nashville?

396
00:15:43.192 --> 00:15:43.392
Yeah.

397
00:15:43.412 --> 00:15:45.073
I'm going to move to Nashville.

398
00:15:45.133 --> 00:15:45.553
I'm going to go,

399
00:15:46.463 --> 00:15:46.983
He means it.

400
00:15:47.103 --> 00:15:48.144
Yeah.

401
00:15:48.184 --> 00:15:52.185
So, you know, no one took me seriously until I moved to Nashville.

402
00:15:52.205 --> 00:15:52.845
That's amazing.

403
00:15:52.885 --> 00:15:53.205
Oh, God.

404
00:15:53.245 --> 00:15:53.485
Okay.

405
00:15:53.765 --> 00:15:54.065
Yeah.

406
00:15:54.145 --> 00:15:56.466
Well, I mean, it's good because if you know what you want to chase.

407
00:15:56.686 --> 00:15:57.546
Right.

408
00:15:57.686 --> 00:16:00.367
And you knew coming to Nashville was the right place to be.

409
00:16:00.387 --> 00:16:00.927
Yes.

410
00:16:01.087 --> 00:16:03.368
I didn't want to go to Boston.

411
00:16:03.408 --> 00:16:04.088
Yeah, Berkeley.

412
00:16:04.228 --> 00:16:04.528
Right.

413
00:16:04.548 --> 00:16:04.788
Yeah.

414
00:16:04.808 --> 00:16:05.328
Exactly.

415
00:16:05.368 --> 00:16:06.849
But Boston was too close to home.

416
00:16:07.009 --> 00:16:07.269
Yeah.

417
00:16:07.569 --> 00:16:09.189
So if I got nervous, I'd go home.

418
00:16:09.550 --> 00:16:10.030
That's true.

419
00:16:10.050 --> 00:16:10.190
Yeah.

420
00:16:10.210 --> 00:16:14.051
So I was like, no, I'm going to move somewhat across the country because

421
00:16:14.811 --> 00:16:15.572
You can't just go home.

422
00:16:15.792 --> 00:16:16.032
Yeah.

423
00:16:16.212 --> 00:16:18.154
And if you're going to commit, you got a full sentence.

424
00:16:18.454 --> 00:16:18.734
Yeah.

425
00:16:19.095 --> 00:16:19.755
Burn the bridges.

426
00:16:19.775 --> 00:16:20.176
Exactly.

427
00:16:20.196 --> 00:16:21.176
Burn all the bridges.

428
00:16:21.296 --> 00:16:21.577
Yeah.

429
00:16:22.257 --> 00:16:22.878
That's very cool.

430
00:16:22.898 --> 00:16:25.600
And then, so you came here, I guess, when was that?

431
00:16:25.640 --> 00:16:27.462
That was probably in the early 2000s?

432
00:16:27.582 --> 00:16:30.004
Like 2009, 10.

433
00:16:30.084 --> 00:16:30.424
Okay.

434
00:16:30.544 --> 00:16:30.744
Yeah.

435
00:16:31.305 --> 00:16:35.668
And then I did two semesters and did the usual dropout thing.

436
00:16:35.709 --> 00:16:35.869
Yeah.

437
00:16:36.329 --> 00:16:36.990
As one does.

438
00:16:37.490 --> 00:16:38.751
Then I moved to New York, 2010-ish.

439
00:16:39.972 --> 00:16:40.353
Oh, nice.

440
00:16:40.433 --> 00:16:41.314
You went up there for a while.

441
00:16:41.454 --> 00:16:47.081
Yeah, I went to New York because I was like, I want to, you know, this is when Taylor Swift moved to New York.

442
00:16:47.101 --> 00:16:47.241
Yeah.

443
00:16:47.261 --> 00:16:48.603
So I was like, well, she's moving.

444
00:16:48.963 --> 00:16:49.404
Yeah.

445
00:16:49.985 --> 00:16:51.827
You know, but also I was just like, I want to get more

446
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.281
of the experience of, of, of pop music, you know what I mean?

447
00:16:56.321 --> 00:16:57.762
And, and jazz and all these things.

448
00:16:57.822 --> 00:17:02.744
And this was before Nashville had all that, you know, did about five years in New York and moved back.

449
00:17:03.224 --> 00:17:06.006
And in those five years, Nashville transformed.

450
00:17:06.086 --> 00:17:06.386
Yeah.

451
00:17:06.446 --> 00:17:06.626
2000.

452
00:17:06.646 --> 00:17:06.886
Yeah.

453
00:17:07.126 --> 00:17:08.887
12 on it really started.

454
00:17:08.947 --> 00:17:10.968
And so were you in New York when you got on the voice?

455
00:17:10.988 --> 00:17:12.248
And I guess, how did that happen?

456
00:17:12.268 --> 00:17:13.029
Because here you are,

457
00:17:13.984 --> 00:17:14.965
We all have dreams.

458
00:17:15.205 --> 00:17:18.627
And some of this is like the podcast about chasing your dreams.

459
00:17:18.667 --> 00:17:20.528
So you were like, I'm going to do music.

460
00:17:20.568 --> 00:17:21.428
You came to Belmont.

461
00:17:21.448 --> 00:17:23.469
You're like, okay, I don't need this degree to do this.

462
00:17:24.370 --> 00:17:31.814
I guess how did you push forward between moving to New York and getting on The Voice, which I guess would have been your first kind of big— Yeah.

463
00:17:32.254 --> 00:17:33.455
That was your first big breakthrough.

464
00:17:33.475 --> 00:17:33.955
It's funny.

465
00:17:34.095 --> 00:17:34.576
It's funny.

466
00:17:35.817 --> 00:17:37.859
If you want to become a cardiologist, right?

467
00:17:37.879 --> 00:17:38.019
Yeah.

468
00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:41.341
You get good at, you know, chemistry probably.

469
00:17:41.381 --> 00:17:42.102
You get good at medicine.

470
00:17:42.122 --> 00:17:43.083
You get good at math.

471
00:17:43.103 --> 00:17:45.144
You get good at all the things.

472
00:17:45.164 --> 00:17:46.205
You pass the class.

473
00:17:46.225 --> 00:17:48.147
If you go to this school, there's a process.

474
00:17:48.247 --> 00:17:49.127
Well-defined route.

475
00:17:49.328 --> 00:17:49.508
Right.

476
00:17:49.648 --> 00:17:50.048
Yeah.

477
00:17:50.068 --> 00:17:52.650
Becoming a singer-songwriter is anything but that.

478
00:17:53.090 --> 00:17:54.271
Yeah.

479
00:17:54.291 --> 00:17:56.693
Sometimes you start at 14 and you're Taylor Swift.

480
00:17:57.074 --> 00:17:57.814
Yeah.

481
00:17:58.895 --> 00:18:02.358
I went to New York because I thought,

482
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.344
okay, two semesters at Belmont wasn't doing it.

483
00:18:06.384 --> 00:18:07.565
This isn't the path.

484
00:18:07.926 --> 00:18:08.707
I'm gonna go to New York.

485
00:18:09.427 --> 00:18:12.551
And I went to New York and what I found was struggle.

486
00:18:13.385 --> 00:18:16.147
You know, what I love about New York is it doesn't care about you.

487
00:18:16.487 --> 00:18:16.747
Yeah.

488
00:18:17.147 --> 00:18:19.889
It's not against you, but it's not for you per se.

489
00:18:19.909 --> 00:18:20.129
Yeah.

490
00:18:20.169 --> 00:18:22.271
It's a neutral beast.

491
00:18:22.611 --> 00:18:22.791
Yeah.

492
00:18:22.811 --> 00:18:24.132
You know what I mean?

493
00:18:24.172 --> 00:18:29.475
And if you can bend that thing to your favor somehow, you, you win.

494
00:18:30.056 --> 00:18:36.460
Um, and so I went to New York and I played clubs, taught lessons, wrote songs, and I

495
00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:39.821
did everything and anything I could to pay rent.

496
00:18:40.121 --> 00:18:40.682
Yeah.

497
00:18:42.282 --> 00:18:45.704
And my uncle helped me, obviously, because I was still 20.

498
00:18:45.984 --> 00:18:46.644
Yeah.

499
00:18:47.165 --> 00:18:51.447
But the point of New York was for me to show myself that I could.

500
00:18:52.479 --> 00:18:55.580
Um, and it was hard.

501
00:18:56.341 --> 00:18:59.062
Um, and I was looking for every opportunity.

502
00:18:59.082 --> 00:19:00.603
I would go to showcases.

503
00:19:00.703 --> 00:19:02.163
I do, you know, just all the things.

504
00:19:02.243 --> 00:19:02.524
Yeah.

505
00:19:02.984 --> 00:19:08.446
Um, the voice kind of happened by accident because they had approached, let me tell the story.

506
00:19:08.466 --> 00:19:12.428
I went for an audition first in 2011.

507
00:19:12.568 --> 00:19:16.650
I went with a friend and I was like, what's the process here?

508
00:19:16.670 --> 00:19:18.091
And they're like, well, it's a year process.

509
00:19:18.111 --> 00:19:19.191
I was like a year process.

510
00:19:19.231 --> 00:19:20.152
I don't have time for that.

511
00:19:20.172 --> 00:19:20.472
So I left.

512
00:19:20.512 --> 00:19:20.772
Yeah.

513
00:19:21.588 --> 00:19:22.948
But they wanted me to do it.

514
00:19:24.329 --> 00:19:29.611
Fast forward, another friend approached me and she was like, let's do the voice as a duo.

515
00:19:29.631 --> 00:19:31.851
And I was like, I said, hey, here's what's going to happen.

516
00:19:32.312 --> 00:19:33.612
They're not going to take us as a duo.

517
00:19:33.852 --> 00:19:36.593
They're going to love me because I'm blind and it's a great human interest story.

518
00:19:37.053 --> 00:19:37.954
Do you really want to do this?

519
00:19:37.974 --> 00:19:39.494
And she goes, yeah, let's go audition together.

520
00:19:39.654 --> 00:19:40.734
And everything I said, how?

521
00:19:41.195 --> 00:19:41.515
Oh, man.

522
00:19:41.535 --> 00:19:42.295
Yeah.

523
00:19:42.655 --> 00:19:44.756
And then that's tough for her.

524
00:19:44.876 --> 00:19:45.157
Oh yeah.

525
00:19:45.217 --> 00:19:45.457
Oh yeah.

526
00:19:45.617 --> 00:19:47.818
But I like, I know what happens to those things.

527
00:19:47.878 --> 00:19:50.560
It's like, make them go, Oh yeah.

528
00:19:50.580 --> 00:19:53.201
You know, the story, the story's great.

529
00:19:53.261 --> 00:19:58.084
And part of the reason I hated it is because I'm trying to be a musician.

530
00:19:58.104 --> 00:20:01.046
I'm not trying to say a story, but such is the way of life.

531
00:20:01.166 --> 00:20:08.268
Do the judges know the story before they... Or is it really they hear the music and they're like, this guy's got a good voice, boom.

532
00:20:08.388 --> 00:20:09.569
Yeah, that's part of it.

533
00:20:09.969 --> 00:20:14.990
And I can't prove it, but you can't tell me that no one slipped them a thing.

534
00:20:15.110 --> 00:20:15.290
Yeah.

535
00:20:15.310 --> 00:20:16.231
You know what I mean?

536
00:20:16.251 --> 00:20:17.311
In the contract...

537
00:20:18.520 --> 00:20:20.102
Well, yeah, we don't have to go.

538
00:20:20.122 --> 00:20:20.843
No, no, no, it's fine.

539
00:20:20.863 --> 00:20:21.244
It's fine.

540
00:20:21.704 --> 00:20:29.115
In the contract, what we sign boils down to the fact that production needs supersede anything.

541
00:20:29.295 --> 00:20:29.756
Okay.

542
00:20:29.776 --> 00:20:30.357
Yeah, that's fair.

543
00:20:30.397 --> 00:20:30.597
Yeah.

544
00:20:30.617 --> 00:20:31.979
So ultimately...

545
00:20:33.152 --> 00:20:34.713
they can do whatever they want.

546
00:20:34.733 --> 00:20:35.533
You know what I mean?

547
00:20:35.553 --> 00:20:39.635
So whatever makes the show successful is the point, and that's in the contract.

548
00:20:39.655 --> 00:20:43.737
I was going to say, if they write the rules, if they own the product, they write the rules.

549
00:20:43.777 --> 00:20:44.217
Exactly.

550
00:20:44.257 --> 00:20:47.118
So, you know, that I can say, and no one's in trouble.

551
00:20:47.158 --> 00:20:47.818
So that's fine.

552
00:20:47.878 --> 00:20:48.819
And, and, and,

553
00:20:49.904 --> 00:20:54.727
You know, we went and my friend didn't get picked.

554
00:20:54.867 --> 00:20:58.468
And I said to them again, I said, hey, this takes a lot of my time.

555
00:20:58.488 --> 00:20:59.969
I need to literally make a living.

556
00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:00.449
I'm in New York.

557
00:21:00.489 --> 00:21:02.490
And they go, hey, give us one audition.

558
00:21:02.551 --> 00:21:04.271
We'll give you yes or no for TV, right?

559
00:21:04.431 --> 00:21:04.892
Oh, okay.

560
00:21:04.972 --> 00:21:05.392
I said, okay.

561
00:21:06.813 --> 00:21:08.313
And so we went, they gave me a yes.

562
00:21:08.634 --> 00:21:09.554
I did the show.

563
00:21:10.695 --> 00:21:12.536
You know, like you said, it was my first like,

564
00:21:13.428 --> 00:21:15.269
international exposure.

565
00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:15.449
Yeah.

566
00:21:15.629 --> 00:21:18.311
It got me a speaking agent, which paid a lot of business.

567
00:21:18.331 --> 00:21:18.811
Oh, very cool.

568
00:21:18.831 --> 00:21:20.052
So that was my first agent.

569
00:21:20.072 --> 00:21:21.273
So you went and gave talks.

570
00:21:21.653 --> 00:21:22.833
So you weren't even doing music.

571
00:21:22.853 --> 00:21:23.834
You were doing talks.

572
00:21:24.374 --> 00:21:26.335
So we were calling it infotainment.

573
00:21:26.956 --> 00:21:27.856
Interesting.

574
00:21:27.956 --> 00:21:30.998
So I'd give talks, play music.

575
00:21:31.018 --> 00:21:32.219
Yeah.

576
00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:37.082
And that was really useful because it got me back to Nashville where I started meeting with labels.

577
00:21:37.202 --> 00:21:37.502
Yeah.

578
00:21:37.822 --> 00:21:40.143
And that was around 2015 and I signed my deal in 2020.

579
00:21:40.163 --> 00:21:40.344
So...

580
00:21:41.588 --> 00:21:43.069
So still another five years.

581
00:21:43.089 --> 00:21:44.910
I mean, so 10-year process.

582
00:21:45.250 --> 00:21:46.431
So it was a 10-year process.

583
00:21:46.451 --> 00:21:48.772
From dropping out of Belmont to coming back.

584
00:21:49.132 --> 00:21:49.492
Wow.

585
00:21:49.953 --> 00:21:52.214
And they call Nashville the 10-year town.

586
00:21:52.274 --> 00:21:54.795
So technically, it should have taken me to 2025.

587
00:21:55.196 --> 00:21:58.838
But I was like, I can't do that.

588
00:21:58.898 --> 00:21:59.258
Wow.

589
00:22:00.018 --> 00:22:01.019
So how do you persist?

590
00:22:01.059 --> 00:22:01.599
Because you're right.

591
00:22:01.619 --> 00:22:03.340
I mean, so in New York, you were young.

592
00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:05.181
So maybe it was just like young willfulness.

593
00:22:05.701 --> 00:22:06.582
And then you came back here.

594
00:22:06.602 --> 00:22:07.502
You had done The Voice.

595
00:22:07.542 --> 00:22:08.543
You're like, all right, I made it.

596
00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:14.081
But then, but you did, but you didn't, because you still had five more years to get to that label deal.

597
00:22:14.201 --> 00:22:20.563
And the good thing is, once you get to a certain point, if you're lucky and you're smart, you're making a living at least, right?

598
00:22:20.963 --> 00:22:22.663
And for a while, I was making a very good living.

599
00:22:22.743 --> 00:22:28.604
And I came to Nashville, and I had a little deal that was keeping me fed.

600
00:22:28.644 --> 00:22:30.065
So that was great for the most two years.

601
00:22:30.705 --> 00:22:32.325
I walked away from that deal.

602
00:22:32.825 --> 00:22:35.166
And then, so that was about 2017, 18.

603
00:22:35.546 --> 00:22:37.527
And there were two years where I was hungry.

604
00:22:37.627 --> 00:22:38.007
Yeah.

605
00:22:38.167 --> 00:22:38.387
Right?

606
00:22:39.747 --> 00:22:41.429
I'm not supposed to, this is a starving artist.

607
00:22:41.629 --> 00:22:42.370
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

608
00:22:42.450 --> 00:22:43.171
How did I get here?

609
00:22:43.391 --> 00:22:44.553
How did I get here?

610
00:22:44.573 --> 00:22:44.673
Yeah.

611
00:22:45.053 --> 00:22:48.197
And ultimately, I tell people I wake up

612
00:22:50.652 --> 00:22:51.312
That's why I kept going.

613
00:22:52.013 --> 00:22:54.114
I'd wake up and all I wanted to do was play piano.

614
00:22:54.254 --> 00:22:54.535
Yeah.

615
00:22:54.835 --> 00:23:02.059
And I prayed, I cried, I schemed, I did any and everything I needed to do.

616
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:03.620
I'd play some gigs I didn't want to play.

617
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:04.001
Yeah.

618
00:23:04.341 --> 00:23:05.722
But all I wanted to do was wake up.

619
00:23:05.862 --> 00:23:07.743
I never went, I should go to law school.

620
00:23:07.903 --> 00:23:08.163
Yeah.

621
00:23:08.183 --> 00:23:08.664
You know what I mean?

622
00:23:08.924 --> 00:23:09.564
Fair enough.

623
00:23:09.624 --> 00:23:11.706
That's not a, it wouldn't make me happy.

624
00:23:12.186 --> 00:23:14.588
At some point, you just have to decide that's what you want to do.

625
00:23:15.293 --> 00:23:15.994
Burn all the bridges.

626
00:23:16.154 --> 00:23:16.935
Burn all the bridges.

627
00:23:17.736 --> 00:23:23.963
So that was very important in my mind that I knew waking up, I got to go write a song.

628
00:23:24.223 --> 00:23:26.466
Was it a good, like, creative period?

629
00:23:26.486 --> 00:23:27.967
It was amazing.

630
00:23:28.028 --> 00:23:28.408
It was.

631
00:23:28.428 --> 00:23:34.555
The irony of hard times, they make for the best, like, shaping season.

632
00:23:34.715 --> 00:23:35.536
You know what I mean?

633
00:23:35.576 --> 00:23:40.139
Like, like, you know, the old cliche about diamonds under pressure, like that's a real thing.

634
00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:40.479
Yeah.

635
00:23:40.499 --> 00:23:52.487
You know, if you, I find that if you let them, those crazy seasons are some of the most creative, enjoyable, character build, all the cliches, right?

636
00:23:52.527 --> 00:23:54.129
Like I miss those times.

637
00:23:54.169 --> 00:23:54.489
Yeah.

638
00:23:54.669 --> 00:23:58.812
Because it was a pure time in a lot of ways.

639
00:23:58.852 --> 00:24:00.533
Like no one cared what I was doing.

640
00:24:00.753 --> 00:24:01.434
Yeah, fair enough.

641
00:24:01.454 --> 00:24:03.296
That's close to now, yeah.

642
00:24:03.737 --> 00:24:07.621
And I could just make music for the sheer joy of making music.

643
00:24:07.661 --> 00:24:08.722
And that's still the case now.

644
00:24:09.123 --> 00:24:13.808
But as I start record number three, I'm going, okay, what is the bar kidney?

645
00:24:14.049 --> 00:24:14.449
Yeah.

646
00:24:14.509 --> 00:24:14.729
What do I?

647
00:24:17.686 --> 00:24:37.199
leave them there are more needs to consider and then i have to shut all that down and go create yeah you know what i mean but you can't you can't deny the prevailing you can't ignore that correct exactly when so in 2014 you get on the voice was that when your family was like okay

648
00:24:38.019 --> 00:24:40.161
Like, okay, you're not going to be a lawyer.

649
00:24:40.842 --> 00:24:41.402
You've done it.

650
00:24:41.422 --> 00:24:42.943
I mean, because it is a thing.

651
00:24:42.963 --> 00:24:44.625
Like, I remember I'd become a doctor.

652
00:24:44.665 --> 00:24:45.946
I was trying to become an astronaut.

653
00:24:46.266 --> 00:24:49.609
And then, and it didn't, you know, I made it to the finals, but I didn't get picked.

654
00:24:50.370 --> 00:24:54.573
But at some point, I think my brother was like, okay, I know you're going to get to space one day.

655
00:24:54.593 --> 00:24:58.837
Like, was that 2014 when they're like, okay, blessing is going to make it in music one day.

656
00:24:59.297 --> 00:25:02.780
There was a moment, because at this point, you know, we had WhatsApp.

657
00:25:02.840 --> 00:25:04.061
Me and my family were talking.

658
00:25:04.081 --> 00:25:04.282
So, yeah.

659
00:25:04.942 --> 00:25:09.166
I was doing the voice and I don't, you don't realize how international that stuff is, but I was still.

660
00:25:09.206 --> 00:25:09.506
Oh yeah.

661
00:25:09.546 --> 00:25:10.087
Interesting.

662
00:25:10.127 --> 00:25:10.487
Yeah.

663
00:25:10.507 --> 00:25:18.874
She goes, I saw this video and you, some, some grown man, keep in mind, she hadn't seen me since I was six.

664
00:25:19.315 --> 00:25:22.197
Some grown man is singing and playing music and he says, it's you.

665
00:25:22.217 --> 00:25:23.358
And I'm like, no way.

666
00:25:23.479 --> 00:25:23.639
Yeah.

667
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:26.801
So my family knew I was working.

668
00:25:26.882 --> 00:25:27.302
Yeah.

669
00:25:28.283 --> 00:25:30.305
And that was their first time seeing it.

670
00:25:31.345 --> 00:25:40.773
So the voice was very special because they were passing these, if there's a million views on something, 500,000 of them came from that year.

671
00:25:40.853 --> 00:25:44.936
Well, in 2014, I guess the internet was more prevalent.

672
00:25:45.237 --> 00:25:48.079
There was, things were moving quicker.

673
00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:54.724
So that was a very special time because they got to see it.

674
00:25:55.004 --> 00:25:55.485
See you.

675
00:25:55.685 --> 00:25:57.006
See me, exactly.

676
00:25:57.266 --> 00:25:57.827
And that,

677
00:25:58.527 --> 00:26:03.130
Made it more tangible for them to be like, oh, oh, he's, he's actually doing it.

678
00:26:03.270 --> 00:26:03.470
Yeah.

679
00:26:03.490 --> 00:26:03.710
You know?

680
00:26:03.910 --> 00:26:05.511
Like he's made it all the way here.

681
00:26:05.531 --> 00:26:06.031
Correct.

682
00:26:06.071 --> 00:26:08.753
Because I could be like, that's a good meeting with a publishing company.

683
00:26:08.773 --> 00:26:09.193
Yeah.

684
00:26:09.493 --> 00:26:09.713
Yeah.

685
00:26:09.813 --> 00:26:10.294
You know what I mean?

686
00:26:10.434 --> 00:26:12.035
I played in New York and, you know.

687
00:26:12.075 --> 00:26:12.535
Cool, cool, cool.

688
00:26:12.695 --> 00:26:13.035
Yeah.

689
00:26:13.235 --> 00:26:16.537
You know, and, and before The Voice, I got this Kennedy Center award.

690
00:26:16.557 --> 00:26:17.858
I was doing things that were cool.

691
00:26:18.038 --> 00:26:20.140
No, you did the Kennedy Center thing before The Voice.

692
00:26:20.340 --> 00:26:21.661
I didn't realize that.

693
00:26:21.881 --> 00:26:24.304
And yet, the Kennedy Center doesn't mean anything, no family.

694
00:26:24.344 --> 00:26:25.545
Yeah, that's right.

695
00:26:25.665 --> 00:26:25.885
Yeah.

696
00:26:26.165 --> 00:26:29.388
But TV and YouTube, they are set.

697
00:26:29.588 --> 00:26:29.788
Yeah.

698
00:26:29.808 --> 00:26:30.429
You know what I mean?

699
00:26:30.689 --> 00:26:37.155
Well, I mean, it's pretty wild for, you know, I think it is incredible how media can move something over the sea.

700
00:26:37.235 --> 00:26:38.636
And yeah, it is much more...

701
00:26:39.617 --> 00:26:40.117
tangible.

702
00:26:40.178 --> 00:26:40.458
Exactly.

703
00:26:40.698 --> 00:26:40.918
Yeah.

704
00:26:40.998 --> 00:26:42.799
Then the Kennedy Center, I played at the Ryman.

705
00:26:42.820 --> 00:26:43.220
Okay.

706
00:26:43.420 --> 00:26:44.401
What does that mean?

707
00:26:44.461 --> 00:26:44.721
Yeah.

708
00:26:44.761 --> 00:26:45.281
Mother Church.

709
00:26:45.301 --> 00:26:45.842
What do you mean?

710
00:26:45.862 --> 00:26:46.963
I don't know.

711
00:26:47.003 --> 00:26:50.445
I remember explaining, trying to explain to my dad the record deal.

712
00:26:50.866 --> 00:26:51.186
Oh yeah.

713
00:26:51.486 --> 00:26:52.407
Dad, I got a record deal.

714
00:26:52.607 --> 00:26:52.807
Okay.

715
00:26:52.827 --> 00:26:53.207
What is that?

716
00:26:54.765 --> 00:26:57.749
this company that's pretty, that's very, it's the biggest in the world.

717
00:26:57.849 --> 00:26:58.109
Yeah.

718
00:26:58.269 --> 00:27:03.936
They, I signed this thing with him where I write songs and they'll put it out and he goes, well, when is it on the radio?

719
00:27:03.956 --> 00:27:05.537
And I'm like, actually soon.

720
00:27:05.958 --> 00:27:06.338
Yeah.

721
00:27:06.378 --> 00:27:10.103
So like, you know, and then 2023, 24, like Grammy season.

722
00:27:10.323 --> 00:27:10.944
Oh yeah.

723
00:27:11.024 --> 00:27:11.164
I go,

724
00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:16.332
Dad, I just got nominated for two Grammys.

725
00:27:16.412 --> 00:27:17.232
It was amazing.

726
00:27:17.252 --> 00:27:17.733
What is that?

727
00:27:17.773 --> 00:27:19.114
Yeah.

728
00:27:19.815 --> 00:27:20.695
You're like your grandmother.

729
00:27:20.976 --> 00:27:22.417
And nothing's more humbling.

730
00:27:22.497 --> 00:27:22.837
Yeah.

731
00:27:22.917 --> 00:27:26.080
Because you think this thing is the biggest deal in the world.

732
00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:26.360
Yeah.

733
00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:28.922
You realize it's the biggest deal in the Western world.

734
00:27:29.202 --> 00:27:30.203
And also in your world.

735
00:27:30.243 --> 00:27:31.785
I mean, nothing is like...

736
00:27:32.305 --> 00:27:38.928
been more humbling than you talk to people and they have, I mean, everyone's got their lives they're living and they have no clue maybe what you're doing.

737
00:27:38.988 --> 00:27:40.949
Cause your thing is so different than what they're doing.

738
00:27:40.989 --> 00:27:41.309
Yeah.

739
00:27:41.349 --> 00:27:41.650
Correct.

740
00:27:41.790 --> 00:27:48.933
And then explaining to your Nigerian father, what a Grammy is just makes you go, I got to put this in person.

741
00:27:49.053 --> 00:27:51.294
And that, that was hilarious.

742
00:27:51.354 --> 00:27:52.295
But he's so excited.

743
00:27:52.495 --> 00:27:53.035
I mean, yeah.

744
00:27:53.055 --> 00:27:56.937
I mean, anything, I think as a, as a parent, when your kid's excited, you're excited.

745
00:27:56.957 --> 00:27:58.077
Even if you have no clue what it is.

746
00:27:58.097 --> 00:27:58.257
Yeah.

747
00:27:58.318 --> 00:27:59.178
I don't even have kids.

748
00:27:59.318 --> 00:27:59.798
Yeah.

749
00:27:59.838 --> 00:28:00.318
You get it.

750
00:28:00.679 --> 00:28:01.199
And he was like,

751
00:28:02.171 --> 00:28:03.452
that's my boy, you know?

752
00:28:04.032 --> 00:28:04.673
That's awesome.

753
00:28:04.693 --> 00:28:04.853
Yeah.

754
00:28:05.313 --> 00:28:10.717
Now, you put out My Tribe, and that was 2023, right?

755
00:28:10.737 --> 00:28:11.778
2023, yeah.

756
00:28:12.479 --> 00:28:18.203
And then, you had Brighter Days on that, which had 150 million TikTok views.

757
00:28:18.603 --> 00:28:19.324
That one did well.

758
00:28:19.504 --> 00:28:20.505
That is pretty wild.

759
00:28:20.525 --> 00:28:22.346
And then three Billboard chart appearances.

760
00:28:23.007 --> 00:28:23.247
What,

761
00:28:24.837 --> 00:28:28.200
I mean, I could ask, what does it feel like to have been so successful?

762
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:30.622
But like, where did that song come from also?

763
00:28:30.642 --> 00:28:33.584
Because obviously it moves a lot of people, right?

764
00:28:34.385 --> 00:28:37.847
That, you'll understand this, I think.

765
00:28:38.688 --> 00:28:40.269
You never know what the thing is.

766
00:28:41.070 --> 00:28:43.232
And it's funny because then you have to go repeat it.

767
00:28:43.252 --> 00:28:43.932
Yeah.

768
00:28:43.972 --> 00:28:46.254
So that song was on a Tuesday.

769
00:28:46.274 --> 00:28:46.374
Yeah.

770
00:28:47.585 --> 00:28:55.092
Yeah, I think literally on a Tuesday, mid-pandemic, I went to my buddy Sam Ellis's, and we were like, well, what are we going to write about today?

771
00:28:55.132 --> 00:28:55.392
Yeah.

772
00:28:55.772 --> 00:29:01.257
And for those who don't know, Nashville Songwriting World is a nine to five, the way it works here.

773
00:29:01.797 --> 00:29:05.421
You go into a studio session about 10, you probably come out about four.

774
00:29:05.681 --> 00:29:05.981
Yeah.

775
00:29:06.582 --> 00:29:08.563
And it's literally like, okay, well, what are we working on today?

776
00:29:09.064 --> 00:29:09.684
And I'm like, oh, no.

777
00:29:09.704 --> 00:29:13.948
You know, and eventually we just, you know,

778
00:29:16.697 --> 00:29:17.018
Yeah.

779
00:29:17.259 --> 00:29:21.414
He goes, I think he probably said something like, I have this weird idea called,

780
00:29:24.366 --> 00:29:25.386
You need that, you know?

781
00:29:25.406 --> 00:29:28.887
So we wrote the song as a matter of our everyday job.

782
00:29:29.048 --> 00:29:29.648
Wow, yeah.

783
00:29:29.948 --> 00:29:33.009
And- In a time where also you saw- All of them.

784
00:29:33.109 --> 00:29:35.430
That we all need- Yes, literally Brighter Days.

785
00:29:35.510 --> 00:29:36.230
Brighter Days, yeah.

786
00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:38.611
It's a direct answer to the situation.

787
00:29:38.651 --> 00:29:42.632
And so we wrote it, demoed it, sent it off.

788
00:29:42.992 --> 00:29:43.972
And I was like, I mean, it's nice.

789
00:29:44.092 --> 00:29:44.312
Yeah.

790
00:29:44.433 --> 00:29:45.773
Didn't, I wish I could be like, hi.

791
00:29:45.873 --> 00:29:47.133
And where do you send it off?

792
00:29:47.153 --> 00:29:48.194
We send it to the label.

793
00:29:48.434 --> 00:29:48.934
Oh, okay.

794
00:29:49.174 --> 00:29:49.634
You know what I mean?

795
00:29:49.654 --> 00:29:51.635
So we go, hey guys, here's the song we wrote today.

796
00:29:52.483 --> 00:29:53.184
I think it's pretty good.

797
00:29:53.204 --> 00:29:55.287
You know, and they go, wait, this is perfect.

798
00:29:55.507 --> 00:29:57.089
No way.

799
00:29:57.129 --> 00:29:57.369
Yeah.

800
00:29:57.389 --> 00:29:58.931
So they can hear it and they're like, yeah.

801
00:29:59.092 --> 00:30:00.834
And sometimes they've heard so many, I guess.

802
00:30:00.874 --> 00:30:01.154
Yeah.

803
00:30:01.735 --> 00:30:05.760
But in that particular one, they could, and they suggested a lyric edit.

804
00:30:05.780 --> 00:30:08.504
We went and tweaked the lyric, finished producing it.

805
00:30:09.749 --> 00:30:14.554
came out and the first, its first media outing was Grey's Anatomy.

806
00:30:14.874 --> 00:30:15.355
No way.

807
00:30:15.475 --> 00:30:16.416
It was on Grey's Anatomy.

808
00:30:16.556 --> 00:30:17.937
Oh dude, my niece would go nuts.

809
00:30:17.958 --> 00:30:19.479
She loves Grey's Anatomy.

810
00:30:19.699 --> 00:30:21.641
This girl is 11, how old is she now?

811
00:30:21.721 --> 00:30:23.583
13 and she's watched all the seasons.

812
00:30:23.623 --> 00:30:26.246
That show's been on for 20 something years.

813
00:30:26.266 --> 00:30:27.988
When I was in med school, it was, yeah.

814
00:30:28.348 --> 00:30:28.829
Yeah.

815
00:30:28.869 --> 00:30:29.529
That's awesome.

816
00:30:29.549 --> 00:30:31.231
So it came on Grey's Anatomy.

817
00:30:31.371 --> 00:30:31.892
And I was like,

818
00:30:33.350 --> 00:30:34.111
Seriously.

819
00:30:34.411 --> 00:30:35.292
Yeah.

820
00:30:35.312 --> 00:30:36.112
Forget the voice.

821
00:30:36.193 --> 00:30:37.434
You got Grey's Anatomy.

822
00:30:37.794 --> 00:30:39.636
And then the Kardashians picked it up.

823
00:30:39.656 --> 00:30:40.336
Yeah, that's cool.

824
00:30:40.596 --> 00:30:43.098
You know, it had a life.

825
00:30:43.179 --> 00:30:49.984
And I always say to people every time I play it, like that song, that's how I knew I had a career was that song.

826
00:30:50.044 --> 00:30:51.025
And, yeah.

827
00:30:52.001 --> 00:31:00.825
You know, you never know what that moment is, but I've gotten messages and met people and gotten to, you know, I went to London and played for King Charles.

828
00:31:00.925 --> 00:31:01.625
That's amazing.

829
00:31:01.905 --> 00:31:03.065
And done all that stuff.

830
00:31:03.185 --> 00:31:05.686
The first spark was that song.

831
00:31:05.706 --> 00:31:07.027
So very grateful for that.

832
00:31:07.127 --> 00:31:09.349
Yeah, I mean, it's a good song.

833
00:31:09.389 --> 00:31:14.372
And then you followed up, you had The Goodness with Toby Mac, which was pretty fun.

834
00:31:14.432 --> 00:31:17.674
I had never seen that video because I don't watch a lot of videos, but I pulled it up the other day.

835
00:31:17.774 --> 00:31:19.075
That's a fun video.

836
00:31:19.376 --> 00:31:19.736
Bro.

837
00:31:19.836 --> 00:31:21.537
There was a lot of people in that video.

838
00:31:21.637 --> 00:31:23.098
It was a whole, we got a choir.

839
00:31:23.218 --> 00:31:24.119
That was incredible.

840
00:31:24.139 --> 00:31:25.380
An actual choir.

841
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:25.840
Yeah.

842
00:31:26.080 --> 00:31:28.242
What you don't know is I flew in from a tour.

843
00:31:29.364 --> 00:31:34.494
went in and I, we probably took seven hours to shoot that video.

844
00:31:35.055 --> 00:31:37.339
And every time they yelled cut, I was like half asleep.

845
00:31:37.870 --> 00:31:38.950
And then they'd be like, okay, let's go.

846
00:31:38.970 --> 00:31:39.790
Were you overseas?

847
00:31:39.830 --> 00:31:42.111
Like you came, like the time was all messed up.

848
00:31:42.131 --> 00:31:43.111
The time was weird.

849
00:31:43.171 --> 00:31:44.972
I feel like I was maybe West coast.

850
00:31:44.992 --> 00:31:52.533
So I was just two hours off, but I went, that video and whatever energy I had was, was pushed.

851
00:31:52.653 --> 00:31:52.793
Yeah.

852
00:31:52.833 --> 00:31:54.974
I was probably, I'm sure I had like 10 Red Bulls.

853
00:31:55.074 --> 00:31:55.774
Yeah.

854
00:31:56.374 --> 00:31:57.794
I mean, it's a very good video.

855
00:31:58.014 --> 00:31:58.575
Oh man.

856
00:31:58.715 --> 00:32:00.635
That was, that was a really fun time.

857
00:32:00.815 --> 00:32:01.135
Yeah.

858
00:32:02.495 --> 00:32:02.776
Yeah.

859
00:32:02.816 --> 00:32:03.576
That's very cool.

860
00:32:04.436 --> 00:32:04.616
Um,

861
00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:07.521
And I mean, obviously, you've been successful now.

862
00:32:07.761 --> 00:32:10.223
I know you left Nigeria when you were six.

863
00:32:10.324 --> 00:32:11.745
You finally made it home.

864
00:32:11.885 --> 00:32:13.246
Yeah.

865
00:32:13.847 --> 00:32:18.531
And I guess, how was that homecoming after something like 25 years?

866
00:32:18.551 --> 00:32:18.812
Yeah.

867
00:32:18.832 --> 00:32:19.572
So, the...

868
00:32:22.767 --> 00:32:31.313
Weird, interesting, baffling, frustrating thing about kind of moving around the world is all the immigration stuff.

869
00:32:31.333 --> 00:32:32.714
So here I am.

870
00:32:32.754 --> 00:32:34.656
I've been in the States since I was six.

871
00:32:35.657 --> 00:32:37.958
And my friends always go, how come you're not a citizen?

872
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:40.800
And oh, that it were that simple.

873
00:32:40.900 --> 00:32:42.342
You know what I mean?

874
00:32:42.522 --> 00:32:42.802
Yeah.

875
00:32:43.122 --> 00:32:45.304
All that to say, for a while, I was on a visa.

876
00:32:45.464 --> 00:32:45.684
Yeah.

877
00:32:46.165 --> 00:32:48.466
And the visa needed to turn into a green card.

878
00:32:48.486 --> 00:32:48.687
Yep.

879
00:32:49.067 --> 00:32:49.647
Which it did.

880
00:32:50.268 --> 00:32:54.191
And my dad didn't want me to run the risk of going to Nigeria.

881
00:32:54.531 --> 00:32:55.432
Oh, that's smart.

882
00:32:55.452 --> 00:32:55.873
Yeah.

883
00:32:55.953 --> 00:32:57.474
He goes, no, no, I need you to wait till you get a green card.

884
00:32:57.494 --> 00:32:57.734
Yeah.

885
00:32:57.754 --> 00:32:57.874
Yeah.

886
00:32:59.095 --> 00:33:01.236
And I was like, oh, my God, that's so frustrating.

887
00:33:01.256 --> 00:33:01.576
Yeah.

888
00:33:01.957 --> 00:33:05.138
But in order to get the green card, you have to build up enough acclaim.

889
00:33:05.258 --> 00:33:05.518
Yeah.

890
00:33:05.638 --> 00:33:06.979
Because we work with the O-1.

891
00:33:07.159 --> 00:33:08.800
Yeah, which is the outstanding.

892
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:09.420
Exactly.

893
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:10.541
Aliens of Extronaut.

894
00:33:10.581 --> 00:33:10.981
Yeah.

895
00:33:11.701 --> 00:33:16.124
And then we went to the EB-1, which is the green card version.

896
00:33:16.144 --> 00:33:16.404
Yeah.

897
00:33:16.864 --> 00:33:18.965
So I got my green card in 2020.

898
00:33:19.445 --> 00:33:21.827
I applied in 22, got it in 23.

899
00:33:21.867 --> 00:33:22.287
Yeah.

900
00:33:22.747 --> 00:33:24.048
Because we built up enough thing.

901
00:33:24.188 --> 00:33:25.408
Yeah.

902
00:33:26.189 --> 00:33:28.390
And went home ASAP.

903
00:33:29.171 --> 00:33:30.513
The guy played for the president.

904
00:33:30.574 --> 00:33:31.195
Is that enough?

905
00:33:31.215 --> 00:33:35.082
Literally, I was like, this, this, this.

906
00:33:35.122 --> 00:33:35.683
Yeah.

907
00:33:36.004 --> 00:33:36.986
Played for the king.

908
00:33:37.026 --> 00:33:37.928
Yeah, that's right.

909
00:33:38.349 --> 00:33:39.551
It was, but, you know.

910
00:33:42.022 --> 00:33:47.805
to show just that it, contrary to popular belief, it's not a simple thing.

911
00:33:47.845 --> 00:33:48.065
Yeah.

912
00:33:48.085 --> 00:33:48.565
You know what I mean?

913
00:33:48.745 --> 00:33:53.127
No, anyone who has people going through it or have gone through it, they know it's years and years and years.

914
00:33:53.527 --> 00:33:59.830
And I mean, and credit to your father, because here he is, you're his adult son, and he's still like, no, like, he's looking out.

915
00:33:59.850 --> 00:34:02.151
He's like, we need to make sure, because he's right.

916
00:34:02.191 --> 00:34:04.992
If you went to Nigeria and got stuck, then— And you're on a visa.

917
00:34:05.152 --> 00:34:06.693
And all the things you've done— Correct.

918
00:34:07.532 --> 00:34:10.374
they maybe don't disappear, but it becomes a lot harder.

919
00:34:10.434 --> 00:34:10.614
Right.

920
00:34:10.674 --> 00:34:13.375
His wisdom was like, no, no, no.

921
00:34:14.356 --> 00:34:18.599
The green card secures you as a resident, a permanent resident, right?

922
00:34:18.619 --> 00:34:19.119
That's right.

923
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:20.700
He goes, I need you to at least have that.

924
00:34:20.900 --> 00:34:21.160
Yeah.

925
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:23.842
Because if, you know, for your listeners that don't know...

926
00:34:24.682 --> 00:34:28.303
If you're on a green card and you go missing somewhere, America will come find you.

927
00:34:28.323 --> 00:34:28.523
Yes.

928
00:34:28.863 --> 00:34:29.724
You know what I mean?

929
00:34:30.204 --> 00:34:32.304
You are counted as all but a citizen.

930
00:34:32.324 --> 00:34:32.604
Yeah.

931
00:34:32.624 --> 00:34:33.105
You know what I mean?

932
00:34:33.125 --> 00:34:36.426
So it's a way firmer standard.

933
00:34:36.446 --> 00:34:38.126
I always say I'm very grateful.

934
00:34:38.146 --> 00:34:42.427
My father became a citizen right before my brother turned 18th, I believe.

935
00:34:42.788 --> 00:34:43.488
So I was 16.

936
00:34:43.508 --> 00:34:44.348
So you never caught it.

937
00:34:44.528 --> 00:34:46.249
He caught it and I caught it.

938
00:34:46.770 --> 00:34:55.135
And because otherwise we would have to go through the whole process because even though we were on green cards and you, once you hit 18, things reset.

939
00:34:55.155 --> 00:34:57.057
And you are your own case.

940
00:34:57.137 --> 00:35:03.921
So we were very fortunate that that happened through his, you know, parents be thinking about their kids all the time.

941
00:35:05.282 --> 00:35:05.823
How was it?

942
00:35:06.023 --> 00:35:06.703
How was going home?

943
00:35:06.763 --> 00:35:09.205
I mean, you know, it's funny.

944
00:35:15.148 --> 00:35:17.369
This core of me was like, I'm from here.

945
00:35:17.549 --> 00:35:17.790
Yeah.

946
00:35:18.070 --> 00:35:19.731
It's so elemental.

947
00:35:19.931 --> 00:35:20.191
Yeah.

948
00:35:20.391 --> 00:35:29.158
The sun that hit me, the miasma of humidity and like people and like overwhelming everything.

949
00:35:29.178 --> 00:35:29.338
Yeah.

950
00:35:29.398 --> 00:35:30.779
It was like, this is where I'm from.

951
00:35:31.099 --> 00:35:31.279
Yeah.

952
00:35:31.299 --> 00:35:33.681
It was really, I cried.

953
00:35:34.281 --> 00:35:36.102
You felt like, it felt like home.

954
00:35:36.323 --> 00:35:36.683
It felt like.

955
00:35:36.703 --> 00:35:37.984
Even though you'd been in Connecticut since.

956
00:35:38.024 --> 00:35:39.725
My cellular memory.

957
00:35:41.062 --> 00:35:44.566
granular knowing of myself knew I was home.

958
00:35:44.746 --> 00:35:45.567
Do you know what I mean?

959
00:35:46.087 --> 00:35:48.670
And then when I got back to America, it felt the same.

960
00:35:48.790 --> 00:35:50.872
So it's like, home is an interesting concept.

961
00:35:51.873 --> 00:35:52.554
You can have...

962
00:35:53.662 --> 00:35:55.784
more than one home that your body knows.

963
00:35:55.904 --> 00:35:56.404
You know what I mean?

964
00:35:56.444 --> 00:36:01.588
But I think just because I haven't been there in so long, it was this like reawakening of home.

965
00:36:01.808 --> 00:36:02.449
That's very cool.

966
00:36:02.509 --> 00:36:03.870
Have you been back other than that time?

967
00:36:03.890 --> 00:36:05.151
I have been two more times.

968
00:36:05.171 --> 00:36:05.691
Two more times.

969
00:36:05.751 --> 00:36:06.172
That's awesome.

970
00:36:06.552 --> 00:36:12.697
So it's fun now because if I have a good week and a half left, I know I can just jump on a plane and go home.

971
00:36:12.797 --> 00:36:13.277
And that is...

972
00:36:14.318 --> 00:36:15.299
Man, that's such a joy.

973
00:36:15.379 --> 00:36:16.539
Have you played down there?

974
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:18.080
I've done a lot of media.

975
00:36:18.120 --> 00:36:20.082
I've done a lot of TV down there.

976
00:36:20.242 --> 00:36:21.282
I've never played a show.

977
00:36:21.462 --> 00:36:21.583
Okay.

978
00:36:21.603 --> 00:36:23.544
That's the one thing I still have to do for my family.

979
00:36:23.564 --> 00:36:24.284
Or at a church.

980
00:36:24.344 --> 00:36:24.764
Or, yeah.

981
00:36:24.784 --> 00:36:25.885
No, I haven't yet.

982
00:36:26.185 --> 00:36:27.366
Yeah.

983
00:36:28.046 --> 00:36:31.629
And then you lost your mother, your sister, and your best friend and partner.

984
00:36:31.669 --> 00:36:34.250
It was like a rough period I was reading about.

985
00:36:35.211 --> 00:36:37.072
But that was also when you were kind of living this.

986
00:36:38.072 --> 00:36:39.053
You were doing well.

987
00:36:39.073 --> 00:36:39.673
A little trotting.

988
00:36:39.814 --> 00:36:40.914
Critically acclaimed.

989
00:36:40.934 --> 00:36:41.074
Yeah.

990
00:36:42.490 --> 00:36:44.931
How was it living in those extremes?

991
00:36:44.951 --> 00:36:49.954
Because obviously externally very successful, but internally dealing with a lot of very serious kind of loss.

992
00:36:50.534 --> 00:36:54.776
Man, life in a nutshell, right?

993
00:36:54.876 --> 00:36:58.378
Like, everything at once, everything all the time.

994
00:36:58.898 --> 00:37:02.820
And then it's like the both end, like holding the tension.

995
00:37:03.260 --> 00:37:05.841
Like, things are hard, things are great.

996
00:37:06.661 --> 00:37:09.423
And somewhere in the middle is the truth of it all, which is,

997
00:37:10.774 --> 00:37:13.055
They're always going to be like that.

998
00:37:13.295 --> 00:37:15.235
Like there isn't a moment where things are perfect.

999
00:37:15.716 --> 00:37:16.976
You know, even when things are great.

1000
00:37:17.176 --> 00:37:17.536
Yeah.

1001
00:37:17.976 --> 00:37:22.298
There's something you're waiting for, looking for, asking for, you know, reaching for.

1002
00:37:23.038 --> 00:37:25.038
And that was a really wild time.

1003
00:37:25.078 --> 00:37:26.739
I think I learned a lot.

1004
00:37:28.739 --> 00:37:34.121
And mainly just to, just to like realize that that is life.

1005
00:37:34.421 --> 00:37:34.701
Yeah.

1006
00:37:34.821 --> 00:37:35.221
Right there.

1007
00:37:35.241 --> 00:37:38.242
Like things are great and things are hard and that is life.

1008
00:37:40.959 --> 00:37:43.161
You shouldn't expect just one without the other.

1009
00:37:43.681 --> 00:37:48.525
And that, I mean, honestly, it's like, again, every cliche you've ever heard is probably true, right?

1010
00:37:48.545 --> 00:37:51.627
How do you know it's daytime if you didn't know it was nighttime?

1011
00:37:51.787 --> 00:37:52.608
Yeah, it's true.

1012
00:37:53.348 --> 00:37:55.150
Yeah, we have to suffer some...

1013
00:37:55.570 --> 00:38:02.095
This is why when people talk about you watch, if you watch fantasy or something, like living forever, that's not a...

1014
00:38:02.155 --> 00:38:04.697
There's no pleasure in life.

1015
00:38:05.398 --> 00:38:06.458
It doesn't end, yeah.

1016
00:38:06.659 --> 00:38:07.299
You need this.

1017
00:38:07.379 --> 00:38:08.160
Like, I mean, it's just...

1018
00:38:08.927 --> 00:38:13.648
It is, the ultimate wisdom is things have to end to start, you know?

1019
00:38:13.968 --> 00:38:14.728
I like that.

1020
00:38:14.868 --> 00:38:15.108
Yeah.

1021
00:38:15.468 --> 00:38:17.849
That's just, things have to change to grow.

1022
00:38:18.029 --> 00:38:18.309
Yeah.

1023
00:38:18.349 --> 00:38:19.169
All of it, you know?

1024
00:38:20.389 --> 00:38:24.650
And it's really, the thing we have a hard time with is that transition.

1025
00:38:24.990 --> 00:38:25.250
Yeah.

1026
00:38:25.310 --> 00:38:25.570
You know?

1027
00:38:26.310 --> 00:38:26.530
Yeah.

1028
00:38:26.810 --> 00:38:30.591
Yeah, I mean, humans, I think, to their benefit are the most adaptable.

1029
00:38:30.991 --> 00:38:31.791
That's our thing.

1030
00:38:32.131 --> 00:38:32.991
We are adaptable.

1031
00:38:33.011 --> 00:38:33.331
Literally.

1032
00:38:33.471 --> 00:38:36.032
But that transition is hard for everyone, always.

1033
00:38:36.432 --> 00:38:37.692
Someone said to me once,

1034
00:38:40.353 --> 00:38:41.635
People disappoint you.

1035
00:38:41.655 --> 00:38:51.290
It's, he goes, or my buddy said, you're not experiencing pain, you're experiencing the gap between your expectations and reality.

1036
00:38:52.623 --> 00:38:53.124
I like that.

1037
00:38:53.204 --> 00:38:57.708
And he said, if you know you're dealing with a jerk and they act like a jerk, it's fine.

1038
00:38:57.828 --> 00:38:58.329
Yeah.

1039
00:38:58.429 --> 00:38:59.990
You knew to expect a jerk, right?

1040
00:39:00.451 --> 00:39:09.479
But if you thought you were dealing with person X and they behave like person Y, that in between is the disappointment gap is what you're feeling.

1041
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:10.320
That's interesting.

1042
00:39:10.340 --> 00:39:11.902
And I was like, dang, that's crazy.

1043
00:39:11.942 --> 00:39:12.222
It is.

1044
00:39:12.282 --> 00:39:16.926
I mean, and true with, I guess, dreams and hopes and goals because we...

1045
00:39:18.213 --> 00:39:20.635
A lot of people grow up thinking, oh, I'm gonna do this.

1046
00:39:20.935 --> 00:39:23.017
And then by doing this, I'm gonna find fulfillment.

1047
00:39:23.077 --> 00:39:26.960
But then they get there and maybe that doesn't fulfill them.

1048
00:39:27.240 --> 00:39:28.041
They're not there yet.

1049
00:39:28.622 --> 00:39:34.146
They've done, I forgot the professor's name, but yeah, but she talks about the hedonic treadmill.

1050
00:39:34.326 --> 00:39:35.187
Yeah.

1051
00:39:35.847 --> 00:39:38.990
The like tendency to return back to baseline.

1052
00:39:39.070 --> 00:39:39.390
Yeah.

1053
00:39:39.510 --> 00:39:41.432
Like you could win a million dollars.

1054
00:39:41.712 --> 00:39:42.253
Absolutely.

1055
00:39:42.273 --> 00:39:44.154
And for three months, four months, a year, two years,

1056
00:39:46.174 --> 00:39:50.056
But eventually you'll wake up and return back to baseline.

1057
00:39:50.076 --> 00:39:50.256
Yeah.

1058
00:39:50.276 --> 00:39:55.318
Because the human brain tends to want to classify, like expect, right?

1059
00:39:55.338 --> 00:39:58.419
So once you have a million dollars, your brain just goes, cool, I have a million dollars.

1060
00:39:58.479 --> 00:39:58.899
That's right.

1061
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:01.960
It puts it into the category of baseline.

1062
00:40:02.040 --> 00:40:02.240
Yeah.

1063
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:03.581
Now I can buy all the tips.

1064
00:40:03.641 --> 00:40:03.941
Correct.

1065
00:40:04.021 --> 00:40:04.921
Yeah.

1066
00:40:05.422 --> 00:40:06.882
Yeah.

1067
00:40:07.222 --> 00:40:09.183
And so it's like, it's never the there.

1068
00:40:09.423 --> 00:40:10.083
There's no there.

1069
00:40:10.123 --> 00:40:12.044
There's no if I just.

1070
00:40:12.104 --> 00:40:14.085
It's like, if you can't be happy now.

1071
00:40:15.483 --> 00:40:16.063
Yeah.

1072
00:40:16.544 --> 00:40:18.205
Nothing external is going to do that for you.

1073
00:40:18.445 --> 00:40:20.606
No, I think that's a valid point.

1074
00:40:20.646 --> 00:40:28.650
And something that, I mean, we've never really personally talked about faith, but something that obviously faith fulfills for a lot of people.

1075
00:40:28.770 --> 00:40:32.292
Because it allows people to be rooted and appreciate faith.

1076
00:40:32.929 --> 00:40:33.569
life, I guess.

1077
00:40:33.629 --> 00:40:34.190
Right, right.

1078
00:40:34.490 --> 00:40:36.851
Appreciate the intangibles.

1079
00:40:36.891 --> 00:40:37.911
Yeah.

1080
00:40:38.211 --> 00:40:44.354
And kind of ultimately, we're all looking for the explanation for all this.

1081
00:40:45.034 --> 00:40:51.537
And when I tell people, you know, people go, the how come bad things happen to good people question?

1082
00:40:51.977 --> 00:40:59.181
I always go, you know, no one in Africa asks that question because.

1083
00:41:00.362 --> 00:41:01.983
I think it's a very Western question.

1084
00:41:02.023 --> 00:41:02.263
Yeah.

1085
00:41:02.603 --> 00:41:03.984
Like, why do bad things happen to good people?

1086
00:41:04.724 --> 00:41:08.866
The premise of that question is I'm a good person and so I shouldn't be expecting good things, right?

1087
00:41:09.166 --> 00:41:09.406
Yeah.

1088
00:41:09.426 --> 00:41:15.349
But there are a lot of good people in Africa and are getting good things.

1089
00:41:15.369 --> 00:41:19.090
There are a lot of wonderful people that are experiencing bad things.

1090
00:41:19.350 --> 00:41:19.531
Yeah.

1091
00:41:21.011 --> 00:41:23.432
I don't know that in their life...

1092
00:41:25.815 --> 00:41:32.636
in their experience of life or in the way they explain life, they would say, I don't, like, it's unfair.

1093
00:41:32.656 --> 00:41:33.797
It's just like, no, this is life.

1094
00:41:33.957 --> 00:41:34.577
Life is hard.

1095
00:41:34.617 --> 00:41:35.157
Life is hard.

1096
00:41:35.197 --> 00:41:36.297
Life is hard.

1097
00:41:36.797 --> 00:41:43.999
But if you are in a place where we tend to expect good and health and money, then you go, how come bad things?

1098
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:45.939
Yeah.

1099
00:41:46.939 --> 00:41:49.520
Every time I hear that, I always just kind of chuckle because I'm like,

1100
00:41:50.466 --> 00:41:52.247
That's a question for here.

1101
00:41:52.447 --> 00:41:53.467
Yeah, very much so.

1102
00:41:53.507 --> 00:42:00.970
And I do worry about younger generations because the expectation is that things are kind of easy, but we know it's not.

1103
00:42:01.130 --> 00:42:02.090
Yeah, for sure.

1104
00:42:02.271 --> 00:42:08.773
Anyone who's lived past a certain age knows life isn't even, even if you've been successful, you've probably struggled.

1105
00:42:08.833 --> 00:42:14.595
Listen, and I mean, ironically, being successful might have you struggle more.

1106
00:42:14.615 --> 00:42:14.875
True.

1107
00:42:15.255 --> 00:42:15.956
Wait, I made it.

1108
00:42:15.996 --> 00:42:17.256
I'm supposed to be happy.

1109
00:42:17.276 --> 00:42:17.616
Yeah.

1110
00:42:17.896 --> 00:42:19.177
Oh, I got all this.

1111
00:42:19.937 --> 00:42:21.998
But why does it still feel gross?

1112
00:42:22.038 --> 00:42:22.358
Yeah.

1113
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:24.239
No, I always tell.

1114
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:30.522
I think for me, the thing that brings me the most happiness is community, which is part of why I'm back in Nashville, family.

1115
00:42:30.942 --> 00:42:36.105
And I remember when our home burned down in California, we had to find a place to live.

1116
00:42:36.945 --> 00:42:39.246
And there was a beautiful house in the country.

1117
00:42:39.266 --> 00:42:40.247
It was on a...

1118
00:42:41.125 --> 00:42:42.786
like a Christmas tree farm.

1119
00:42:42.806 --> 00:42:43.687
And beautiful.

1120
00:42:44.007 --> 00:42:45.868
But it was like 30 minutes out.

1121
00:42:46.468 --> 00:42:51.231
And I looked at my wife and I'm like, if we live out there, we're never going to see the people who matter to us.

1122
00:42:51.712 --> 00:42:54.193
And I was like, and right now more than anything, you need your community.

1123
00:42:54.534 --> 00:43:01.098
So we ended up living in like lower income housing for six months, like an apartment, you know, where people were piled up on each other.

1124
00:43:01.118 --> 00:43:04.320
But I was like, but at least here we can get to our people.

1125
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:04.820
Yeah.

1126
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:09.103
And I think when you get more successful, sometimes it's easy to,

1127
00:43:10.049 --> 00:43:11.490
move further away from your community.

1128
00:43:12.691 --> 00:43:18.715
What you decided was space and privacy wasn't worth losing community over.

1129
00:43:18.735 --> 00:43:19.156
That's right.

1130
00:43:19.176 --> 00:43:19.996
You know what I mean?

1131
00:43:20.277 --> 00:43:20.537
Yeah.

1132
00:43:20.637 --> 00:43:21.537
Don't build walls.

1133
00:43:21.618 --> 00:43:23.799
You know, when you get successful, it's easy to build walls.

1134
00:43:23.979 --> 00:43:25.600
Oh, and you have every reason to build walls.

1135
00:43:25.620 --> 00:43:25.921
Yeah.

1136
00:43:25.941 --> 00:43:26.201
You know?

1137
00:43:26.501 --> 00:43:29.363
I mean, there's also this, like, people want something from me.

1138
00:43:29.423 --> 00:43:31.625
It's like, oh, you still need people.

1139
00:43:31.825 --> 00:43:33.346
Yeah, definitely need people.

1140
00:43:33.506 --> 00:43:38.109
And that, from the places we're both from, I think, is a very deep lesson.

1141
00:43:38.229 --> 00:43:38.530
Yes.

1142
00:43:38.830 --> 00:43:41.212
You can't, no man is an island kind of thing.

1143
00:43:41.292 --> 00:43:41.532
Yeah.

1144
00:43:41.652 --> 00:43:49.638
I mean, I still, the people who were my parents' friends growing up, you know, who saw me grow up, are still actively involved, right, in life.

1145
00:43:49.718 --> 00:43:52.239
Because we know community is, that's part of the culture.

1146
00:43:52.279 --> 00:43:52.920
It's paramount.

1147
00:43:53.957 --> 00:43:57.219
You write about loss in The Real.

1148
00:43:58.520 --> 00:44:04.262
And, you know, you've said that, like, when something's happening, you would put it in a song, right?

1149
00:44:04.402 --> 00:44:06.463
Even if you still needed to process it afterwards.

1150
00:44:06.864 --> 00:44:11.226
How does songwriting help you in, like, with grief that nothing else can do?

1151
00:44:12.406 --> 00:44:19.370
You know, there is a magic to catching a thought

1152
00:44:20.501 --> 00:44:34.127
and processing it through notes and melodies and rhythms where, you know, you can say anything, but, you know, saying something, someone might be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, why am I listening to this?

1153
00:44:34.147 --> 00:44:39.489
But all of a sudden, if you sing it, it's like it hits a different part of the brain.

1154
00:44:39.649 --> 00:44:40.069
Yeah.

1155
00:44:40.169 --> 00:44:42.170
Soul, the heart, the everything, right?

1156
00:44:42.770 --> 00:44:46.452
And for me, you know, I have never found

1157
00:44:48.458 --> 00:44:52.440
more heartfelt moments than when I sing something.

1158
00:44:52.720 --> 00:44:53.401
You know what I mean?

1159
00:44:53.421 --> 00:45:04.869
And I'm really grateful that I have kind of this avenue to do it in because I can listen to those moments, catch those moments, put it, distill it into song and be like, oh, and I'm working somehow.

1160
00:45:04.909 --> 00:45:05.509
So this is great.

1161
00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:07.452
Well, I mean, I love that because you're right.

1162
00:45:07.492 --> 00:45:08.713
It hits a different wavelength.

1163
00:45:09.074 --> 00:45:09.294
Yeah.

1164
00:45:09.455 --> 00:45:09.755
Yeah.

1165
00:45:09.935 --> 00:45:10.736
Than saying it.

1166
00:45:11.117 --> 00:45:11.437
Correct.

1167
00:45:11.558 --> 00:45:11.838
Yeah.

1168
00:45:11.878 --> 00:45:12.519
You don't want to preach.

1169
00:45:12.659 --> 00:45:13.721
You just want to sing to people.

1170
00:45:13.841 --> 00:45:14.001
Yeah.

1171
00:45:14.041 --> 00:45:14.902
No, that's interesting.

1172
00:45:15.263 --> 00:45:15.663
Humans.

1173
00:45:15.944 --> 00:45:16.104
Yeah.

1174
00:45:16.244 --> 00:45:20.270
And you had Dolly Parton on one of your tracks, which is pretty wild.

1175
00:45:21.091 --> 00:45:21.291
And...

1176
00:45:22.285 --> 00:45:23.206
out of the blue too.

1177
00:45:23.326 --> 00:45:23.686
Yeah.

1178
00:45:23.887 --> 00:45:27.090
Out of the, so I wrote this song called, um, what is it?

1179
00:45:28.311 --> 00:45:29.171
Uh, Somebody's Child.

1180
00:45:29.292 --> 00:45:29.972
I forgot.

1181
00:45:30.613 --> 00:45:34.657
And wrote it, did the thing in Nashville where we just put it away.

1182
00:45:34.837 --> 00:45:37.599
And my buddy, I wrote it was said, you know, my dad is,

1183
00:45:38.633 --> 00:45:41.216
Or my father-in-law's Dolly Parton's stylist.

1184
00:45:41.716 --> 00:45:42.096
No way.

1185
00:45:42.297 --> 00:45:42.897
I might say.

1186
00:45:42.937 --> 00:45:43.818
Random connection.

1187
00:45:43.838 --> 00:45:44.098
Yeah.

1188
00:45:44.118 --> 00:45:44.579
That's fine.

1189
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:45.119
I mean, good luck.

1190
00:45:45.139 --> 00:45:45.320
Yeah.

1191
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.423
And so two weeks later, we get this letter from Dolly.

1192
00:45:48.463 --> 00:45:49.163
That's amazing.

1193
00:45:49.464 --> 00:45:52.807
And it said, this is one of the finest songs I've heard in the last year.

1194
00:45:52.927 --> 00:45:53.207
Yeah.

1195
00:45:53.688 --> 00:45:54.528
And that's Dolly Parton.

1196
00:45:54.548 --> 00:45:54.889
Yeah.

1197
00:45:55.349 --> 00:45:57.812
Like, you can only imagine what song she hears every day.

1198
00:45:57.832 --> 00:45:58.112
Yeah.

1199
00:45:58.252 --> 00:46:00.855
And then she goes, if it isn't too much, I'll...

1200
00:46:01.655 --> 00:46:02.737
could I sing a verse?

1201
00:46:02.757 --> 00:46:03.377
Amazing.

1202
00:46:03.498 --> 00:46:04.018
Amazing.

1203
00:46:04.158 --> 00:46:05.140
And I was like, no, Dolly.

1204
00:46:05.540 --> 00:46:07.102
Yeah.

1205
00:46:07.983 --> 00:46:08.804
Please, come.

1206
00:46:08.824 --> 00:46:10.806
I was like, Dolly, literally anything.

1207
00:46:10.846 --> 00:46:11.267
Yeah.

1208
00:46:11.728 --> 00:46:12.889
And I thought she was kidding.

1209
00:46:13.550 --> 00:46:15.112
And she sang a verse.

1210
00:46:15.252 --> 00:46:15.732
That's incredible.

1211
00:46:15.752 --> 00:46:19.076
That song is still, like, my uncle

1212
00:46:20.264 --> 00:46:23.345
in Nigeria knew two American, three American artists.

1213
00:46:23.365 --> 00:46:23.646
Yeah.

1214
00:46:23.726 --> 00:46:24.806
He knew Michael Jackson.

1215
00:46:24.866 --> 00:46:25.086
Yep.

1216
00:46:25.346 --> 00:46:26.547
He knew Lionel Richie.

1217
00:46:26.727 --> 00:46:26.927
Uh-huh.

1218
00:46:26.967 --> 00:46:27.947
And he knew Dolly Parton.

1219
00:46:28.088 --> 00:46:28.648
It's amazing.

1220
00:46:28.748 --> 00:46:31.989
So everything I've done was awesome and he was very proud.

1221
00:46:32.029 --> 00:46:32.249
Yeah.

1222
00:46:32.490 --> 00:46:36.992
But when I said to him I was singing with Dolly Parton, he was like, oh my God.

1223
00:46:37.112 --> 00:46:37.652
You've made it.

1224
00:46:37.672 --> 00:46:38.112
You made it.

1225
00:46:38.152 --> 00:46:38.532
Yeah.

1226
00:46:38.552 --> 00:46:42.474
Because Jolene was a bad song in Nigeria.

1227
00:46:42.694 --> 00:46:43.054
Yes.

1228
00:46:43.094 --> 00:46:43.635
You know what I mean?

1229
00:46:43.655 --> 00:46:44.095
Yeah.

1230
00:46:44.175 --> 00:46:46.536
This guy playing professional soccer in 85.

1231
00:46:46.596 --> 00:46:47.296
That's awesome.

1232
00:46:47.436 --> 00:46:48.397
Knew Jolene.

1233
00:46:49.237 --> 00:46:51.199
And so that was a marker for him.

1234
00:46:51.699 --> 00:46:53.301
I do like that you forgot the name.

1235
00:46:53.681 --> 00:46:57.165
And it was somebody's child, which is like the perfect one to forget.

1236
00:46:57.265 --> 00:47:00.187
You're like, it's your child.

1237
00:47:00.928 --> 00:47:03.210
I heard Jolene on the radio yesterday, and I was like, oh.

1238
00:47:03.490 --> 00:47:04.191
I mean, it's good.

1239
00:47:04.231 --> 00:47:04.952
It's a classic.

1240
00:47:05.032 --> 00:47:06.093
It's a classic.

1241
00:47:06.293 --> 00:47:06.593
It is.

1242
00:47:06.653 --> 00:47:07.454
He did it.

1243
00:47:07.574 --> 00:47:07.995
She did it.

1244
00:47:08.015 --> 00:47:08.655
By himself.

1245
00:47:08.715 --> 00:47:09.076
You know.

1246
00:47:10.271 --> 00:47:13.212
In one day, she wrote, And I Will Always Love You and Jolie.

1247
00:47:13.252 --> 00:47:13.893
That's incredible.

1248
00:47:13.913 --> 00:47:14.753
Same day by herself.

1249
00:47:14.833 --> 00:47:15.453
That's incredible.

1250
00:47:15.553 --> 00:47:16.974
That was a very lucrative day for me.

1251
00:47:17.014 --> 00:47:17.294
Yes.

1252
00:47:17.814 --> 00:47:19.375
And she's an excellent singer-songwriter.

1253
00:47:19.415 --> 00:47:19.575
Yes.

1254
00:47:20.295 --> 00:47:22.096
And everything else.

1255
00:47:22.916 --> 00:47:26.038
And then you have a third album coming out, you said.

1256
00:47:26.398 --> 00:47:28.138
Do you want to tell us about that?

1257
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:30.279
Because you're also going to have a tour, I think, right?

1258
00:47:30.359 --> 00:47:30.519
It is.

1259
00:47:30.680 --> 00:47:31.040
Yeah.

1260
00:47:31.100 --> 00:47:33.801
So, Hearts Are Real, part two.

1261
00:47:34.301 --> 00:47:34.861
Nice.

1262
00:47:35.141 --> 00:47:38.423
Starts probably, I think, August 13th in Nashville.

1263
00:47:39.253 --> 00:47:42.717
So if you guys are hearing this, if you're watching this, we'll get tickets right now.

1264
00:47:44.899 --> 00:47:45.620
Let me see if I can remember.

1265
00:47:45.660 --> 00:47:46.101
How good am I?

1266
00:47:46.521 --> 00:47:54.510
Nashville, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, L.A.,

1267
00:47:55.581 --> 00:47:59.144
uh, Phoenix, Sacramento, San Francisco.

1268
00:47:59.164 --> 00:47:59.604
Pretty good.

1269
00:48:00.045 --> 00:48:05.189
Um, oh no, there's a couple more, uh, Springfield, Missouri, if I'm not mistaken.

1270
00:48:05.749 --> 00:48:06.570
There's another one.

1271
00:48:07.230 --> 00:48:08.571
I said Nashville, Atlanta.

1272
00:48:08.611 --> 00:48:08.752
Yeah.

1273
00:48:08.892 --> 00:48:09.712
I think those are all the cities.

1274
00:48:09.852 --> 00:48:10.113
Yeah.

1275
00:48:10.353 --> 00:48:14.336
And so I'm sure I'm missing one, but my point is you guys should get tickets.

1276
00:48:14.456 --> 00:48:15.277
It's going to be amazing.

1277
00:48:15.297 --> 00:48:16.338
Um, yeah,

1278
00:48:17.107 --> 00:48:18.767
Hearts Are Real Part 2, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1279
00:48:19.128 --> 00:48:22.288
This next record we're going to make is called Nashville Soul.

1280
00:48:22.648 --> 00:48:23.649
Oh, nice.

1281
00:48:23.949 --> 00:48:30.750
And I'm always excited about new music, but I think there's something special really going.

1282
00:48:31.211 --> 00:48:31.971
That's fantastic.

1283
00:48:31.991 --> 00:48:32.991
Well, we look forward to it.

1284
00:48:33.751 --> 00:48:40.453
And for our listeners who are all different places, some probably are deeply religious, some are probably skeptical.

1285
00:48:40.513 --> 00:48:41.313
Oh, the more the merrier.

1286
00:48:42.014 --> 00:48:44.676
people who are probably in the dark and don't know what they believe, right?

1287
00:48:44.776 --> 00:48:46.477
Like we have all types of folks out there.

1288
00:48:47.058 --> 00:48:49.380
What do you most want them to feel when they hear your music?

1289
00:48:49.460 --> 00:48:52.402
What's like, what's the point?

1290
00:48:52.422 --> 00:48:53.043
What's the goal?

1291
00:48:53.283 --> 00:48:54.464
I love that.

1292
00:48:55.485 --> 00:49:09.317
Wherever you are on that spectrum of faith or the spectrum of good or bad things are or whatever the case is, I make music so that people feel seen.

1293
00:49:10.407 --> 00:49:12.452
and understood and not

1294
00:49:16.082 --> 00:49:21.045
purposefully I make that music because I think that's what music is supposed to do.

1295
00:49:21.285 --> 00:49:26.808
You know, like if I speak French and you're listening in English, you're not really getting a lot out of my music.

1296
00:49:27.008 --> 00:49:27.629
You know what I mean?

1297
00:49:27.649 --> 00:49:34.553
If I, if I make music with high religious language in it, then my buddy in Brooklyn isn't getting much out of it.

1298
00:49:34.853 --> 00:49:35.373
You know what I mean?

1299
00:49:35.393 --> 00:49:40.957
So I make music that by design is very approachable and for everyone.

1300
00:49:41.477 --> 00:49:42.678
Um, because it,

1301
00:49:43.998 --> 00:49:45.059
the genre of humanity.

1302
00:49:45.219 --> 00:49:45.499
Yeah.

1303
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:52.081
I think that's the point is that I can come to you and you go, oh, I get that.

1304
00:49:52.281 --> 00:49:53.361
I feel that.

1305
00:49:53.401 --> 00:49:54.281
That is also me.

1306
00:49:54.501 --> 00:49:58.163
And I think we're all going through so much of the same things.

1307
00:49:58.403 --> 00:50:03.484
And somehow we separate each other and, and never is that the point.

1308
00:50:03.704 --> 00:50:04.164
Yeah.

1309
00:50:04.665 --> 00:50:04.905
Yeah.

1310
00:50:05.025 --> 00:50:05.645
No, I love that.

1311
00:50:06.425 --> 00:50:10.087
And I ask these couple of next couple of questions to everyone.

1312
00:50:10.568 --> 00:50:16.851
Who in your life do you believe has been kind of like believed in you the most, even maybe when you didn't believe in yourself?

1313
00:50:16.891 --> 00:50:18.893
Like who is the person?

1314
00:50:20.774 --> 00:50:26.077
Who has believed in me when I haven't believed in myself?

1315
00:50:27.078 --> 00:50:28.058
Man, that's a good question.

1316
00:50:28.659 --> 00:50:30.840
I'm going to give this one to Phil Covert.

1317
00:50:32.136 --> 00:50:33.457
I mean, he's Pastor Phil.

1318
00:50:33.897 --> 00:50:39.982
But Pastor Phil has been around this journey from probably 2016.

1319
00:50:40.162 --> 00:50:41.904
And I meet with him every Wednesday morning at 8am.

1320
00:50:41.944 --> 00:50:42.224
Nice.

1321
00:50:42.604 --> 00:50:43.105
Fantastic.

1322
00:50:43.225 --> 00:50:46.567
And, you know, he keeps me on the straight and narrow.

1323
00:50:46.788 --> 00:50:51.711
And he has very much had the right words at times when I really needed to hear him.

1324
00:50:53.132 --> 00:50:53.992
Is he in Nashville then?

1325
00:50:54.012 --> 00:50:54.652
He's in Nashville, yeah.

1326
00:50:54.672 --> 00:50:54.993
Okay.

1327
00:50:55.533 --> 00:50:56.773
Check him out if he's available.

1328
00:50:56.813 --> 00:50:58.373
Passportville Covert, Reality Cuddle.

1329
00:50:59.014 --> 00:50:59.574
That's awesome.

1330
00:50:59.594 --> 00:51:00.594
Really great work for artists.

1331
00:51:00.734 --> 00:51:01.614
That's fantastic.

1332
00:51:02.114 --> 00:51:10.057
And then last question, and we asked this in the Heart for Space, what is the space inside yourself or out in the world that you're still reaching for?

1333
00:51:10.077 --> 00:51:18.279
What is the space inside myself or out in the world that I'm still reaching for?

1334
00:51:19.359 --> 00:51:20.660
I think I know the answer to that.

1335
00:51:22.965 --> 00:51:25.386
There's a corner I want to find.

1336
00:51:28.207 --> 00:51:36.850
Music I love and the people I love kind of like they realize one another, right?

1337
00:51:36.970 --> 00:51:44.153
I want to find the people that I'm making this music for and I want to build that community out.

1338
00:51:47.625 --> 00:51:48.485
A lot of it.

1339
00:51:48.786 --> 00:51:51.967
But the music I make, I think, is for someone.

1340
00:51:52.267 --> 00:51:52.507
Yeah.

1341
00:51:52.627 --> 00:51:54.508
And I love meeting those people.

1342
00:51:59.470 --> 00:52:03.652
I'm looking forward to the day where that thing defines itself even further.

1343
00:52:04.252 --> 00:52:04.713
Community.

1344
00:52:04.833 --> 00:52:05.593
So it goes back.

1345
00:52:05.913 --> 00:52:06.333
I love it.

1346
00:52:06.934 --> 00:52:08.194
Well, thank you so much, Blessing.

1347
00:52:08.214 --> 00:52:11.416
I mean, it's truly been a pleasure to have you on today.

1348
00:52:11.436 --> 00:52:12.276
My pleasure.

1349
00:52:12.396 --> 00:52:13.957
And yeah, come back anytime.

1350
00:52:14.017 --> 00:52:14.237
Thank you.

1351
00:52:15.116 --> 00:52:17.177
Thank you for listening to A Heart for Space.

1352
00:52:17.857 --> 00:52:25.660
If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow the show so you never miss an episode and consider leaving us a review to let us know your thoughts.

1353
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:33.763
For more on my work in the pursuit of ambitious goals, visit AHeartForSpace.com and look out for my upcoming book, A Heart for Space.

1354
00:52:34.023 --> 00:52:36.464
Until next time, I'm Dr. Iman Jahangir.

1355
00:52:36.944 --> 00:52:42.226
And remember, sometimes the only obstacle to achieving an impossible dream is the courage to keep going.