The Courage to Start Again | Aylar Macky

0:00 I want everyone to know good things in life are not easy, but just because it's hard, it doesn't mean it's undoable. Welcome to A Heart for Space. I am your host, Dr. Emon Jehanger. Join me as we uncover what it takes to reach beyond the limits of what we think is possible and turn the biggest dreams into tangible reality. All right. Well, I'm very excited to invite you here today, Ailar. And thank you for, yeah, taking the time to come on a Heart for Space podcast. Thank you so much for inviting me and for making the time and for hosting. Love it. I will say you are my first Irune, so it's nice to have a fellow country person here and hopefully one of many.

0:45 But I'm excited to have you on because I think there's a lot of intersection between what you've done in creating a business and a brand, and then also just having to start from, from scratch with things that have happened more recently. And we'll get into some of that, but, um, I guess we'll start with this. So for someone who has never heard of you, how would you introduce yourself at a party? Who would you say you are? All right. Well, I tried to have a good elevator pitch for this, but I can never cram it in, you know, under a minute. I am Ayla Armaki, born in Tehran, moved to Canada with my family when I was eight years old, completed university double degree in marketing and sociology with a minor in communications, I worked a little bit in Canada, hated the weather, hated the cold, loved the culture, decided to move down to California, worked at a VC.

1:37 Then I had to go back to Iran after so many years. And when I got there, the wonderful, great, delicious cuisine and food got to my system. And I ended up gaining a lot of weight. And from all of that weight gain came major depression and dah, dah, dah, dah. And I honestly spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I'm supposed to eat to make myself feel good and what I'm not supposed to eat and how the body works. So I started just self-studying nutrition and developed a system that worked for me, started cooking foods that worked for me and helped rev up my metabolism. Helped me lose weight in a healthy way without taking, you know, medication, fat burners, this and that, and just established a balanced, healthy lifestyle, put focus on my sleep, on the water I was drinking, on the amount of exercise, type of exercise I was doing.

2:30 And honestly, lost the weight, never came back. And while I was, you know, cooking these cool foods, a lot of my colleagues started eating them. And then at one point, I was like, hmm, I'm making more money selling foods at the company than I am from my salary. I think. Maybe onto something here. So then I asked my aunt, my Khaled, to step on because she was an incredible cook in the family. And I was like, listen, I'll bring the sales. I'll do the marketing. Just do the cooking because I'm awful at it. And this was in Iran. Yeah. This was in Iran. This was all in Tehran in 2016, I would say, 2016, 2017.

3:11 And we just kind of started from her home kitchen. I would take the photos with my phone, upload them on Instagram, reach out to people, be like, hey, do you want a free salad? Or, you know, just post about it. And the business honestly picked up from there. And then, well, she had to move back to the States because of her kids going to school and stuff. So then I kind of, took the company and um went with it and it grew iman like when we hit covet i thought it was gonna be um shutdown point yeah and uh me and my business partner we just we sat down and we're like okay plan a he's like shut down plan b shut down i'm like no we're not shutting down we're continuing like covet is an opportunity people need to eat well people People need to lose weight so they can increase their immunity.

4:04 People that have diabetes need to be eating good. People who have chronic illnesses. And it just domino affected from there. It just grew and grew and grew until... a couple of months ago, we were running a team of about 120, 130, producing about between 12 to 15,000 medical meals per day. So we were producing meals that were substituted as medicine or taken along with medicine to help patients with chronic illnesses. And that's a Little big story of who I am and how I ended up here on the screen.

4:46 What was the name of your company back in Iran? So the company is called Joule, J-O-U-L-E. Comes from the word kilojoules, the unit for measuring energy. And I solely picked that because I wanted to work at an energetic place. I wanted something that reflects me and something that reflects the product. This was food that was creating good energy. It wasn't food that was... making you drowsy, making you sleepy, wearing you down. It was food that was turning into good energy. So you were more energized after eating. Then, you know, when we have like Iranian food, you always want to sleep. Take a nap. Oh, yeah. Because you get so heavy, but this just like makes you want to go.

5:29 And did you, do you eat much Iranian food then anymore? Like traditional, like horam asabzi, kebab, bedange? To be honest with you, once a week at family dinner, and that is mandated and forced by my father. We have to have kebab night or korsh badim june night. But yeah, just once a week in moderation because my body has, shifted, you know, the foods that I enjoy, like my taste has shifted, what I need has shifted, like my body no longer needs sugar. Like I can walk and I used to be sugar crazy. Like I'd walk into a bakery and I get one of everything.

6:12 Yeah. But now I walk in and it's just like looking at rocks for me. It makes no difference. I'm like tempted. And I think that came from stabilizing my blood sugar and just looking at food differently. So to answer your question, I mean, Iranian food is great, but I love it. But my body doesn't create. You're not craving it anymore. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because, you know, in medicine, we know that what you put in is important. Um, obviously when I talk to people, they're like, what can I do to be healthier and live a healthier life? A lot of it is diet and exercise, right? These are like the initial foundations for everything else. And on top of that, you know, sometimes people need medicine and other things, but really starting from that basis is so important.

6:58 So I'm excited that you brought that to Iran. Um, And as an immigrant, you know, because you've lived in Canada, the United States, Iran, and even other countries, but how has that shaped everything you've built? You know, your background as who you are, you know, multiple cultures, seeing different things, being as an eight-year-old going to Canada, which is not easy, I mean, at that point. To be honest with you, and you may be able to resonate with this and other immigrants, I think my entire identity is formed around being an immigrant. When you leave your own country, your motherland, your mother tongue, your culture, everything that you're exposed to and know at such an early age, and then you just lose it overnight.

7:46 You know, you get on the plane and then you appear in a new land, new people, new culture, new language. And then. For me, one of the more important changing factors was that I was the only grandchild in a big family. And then I was just in a city called Calgary in snow, like ice, you know, by myself. And I was like, oh, my God, I used to be this spoiled, like only grandchild. And now there's nobody. You know, and it was lonely. And from all that loneliness, you get stronger and you learn to self-soothe. And then I'd watch my dad, who was, you know, a geologist at the National Iranian Oil Company, very super educated guy, had an incredible position.

8:35 We moved to Calgary and all of a sudden he's delivering pizza. All of a sudden he's washing floors. All of a sudden he's doing all this stuff that was like, and my mom would be watching this crying. Yeah. Because it was hard for her to, you know, fathom that he was doing all of this to stay afloat. Yeah. She was missing her family because back then there was no FaceTime. There was no WhatsApp. There was barely internet. So we could like only interact via letters. So you couldn't see someone's face when you were, you know, missing them. Yeah. Yeah. Watching them go through all this pain shaped a big part of my personality because I was like, okay, I got to make them proud because they're going through all of this for me.

9:15 They just threw their life out the window to give me something better. And you must know this too. It comes with a big weight on your shoulder. You're like, I cannot disappoint. So smoking, I'm not going to smoke. That's going to disappoint. I'm not going to drink. That's going to disappoint. I'm going to party. That's going to disappoint. And it just like, you know, you become this person that's shaped around, at least for me, that's shaped around being an immigrant. And really what happened was I learned English faster than both of them because I was going to school. So at one point, you know, they would be calling from like the life insurance company. And my dad is like, hello, talk to my daughter.

9:57 Gives me the call. I'm like, I'm only nine. Why am I on the phone with the life insurance? They're calling from the bank and they're like talking about, I don't know, overdraft. I'm like, what? Yeah. Open the dictionary because I was like barely any Google back then. And then I just kind of became this person that knew better than her elders, knew better parents, you know, and that also comes with responsibilities because you stop being a child. Yeah. You grow up quick. I mean, I say this with my kids because they have no idea. But by the time I was 17, I was like, all right, I'm out. I can figure this out. I'll come back.

10:38 My parents still supported me, but I was much more independent than I imagine either of my children are going to be at that age. And again, that becomes our personalities, right? You grow up and you don't require help for so many things because you're just independent. You've handled adults when you were a child. So when you're like, this is why. Well, because you didn't want to bother your parents. They're busy surviving. Exactly. Because we didn't add. And, you know, I was like, I look at kids now. They're like, I don't know, 10, 11, 12. And they're worried about, um, yeah. Lulu, Lubu, like these dolls. The little, yeah. Yeah, like dolls. And they're worried about going to a Bieber concert, going to a Taylor Swift concert.

11:22 And I'm like, I was working on resumes for my dad at that age. The world is just so... it is so different from being who I was and how like that immigration played out to, you know, create my character to what I'm seeing now. So to answer your question, I think my entire being, personality, character, life, like the trajectory of my entire everything was based on and shaped by that immigration. And what was, because it's a big deal to decide to go back because you've seen your parents leave. I think if I had told my parents I was moving back to Iran, they would have said, like, are you crazy?

12:03 No way. We came here. We gave up everything. What would be, what was that like? And why did you make that decision? What was the pull back to the motherland? It was a couple of things, actually. My parents didn't take it well at all. Understandable. Yeah, understandable. They're like, we gave up our plans for you to come here, and now you want to go back there. Please, elaborate. Explain what's wrong with you. What's your mindset? Yeah. What's your mindset? And honestly... So my parents raised me in a way where any holiday time we had, we would be going to Iran. Like we didn't go to Finland. We didn't go to Hawaii. We didn't go to San Diego.

12:44 We went back to Iran to visit family. It was important to keep, you know, close ties with family. So I guess for me, that like umbilical cord with the country was never like entirely cut together. And my mind was always like, Iran is so much fun. Like, it's the place where I get attention. It's the place where I get love from family. It's the place where everybody gathers around this big table and eats together. And it's like the unloneliest place, you know? And I just had good memories. And every time I went back, I would, in my subconscious mind, I would be comparing things, right? I'm Oh, my God, here the garbage cans are emptied by hand. Yeah.

13:25 This big truck that comes and lifts it and flips it. Like, why don't we have this? And then I would notice this in everything. Like, even in the way the salt shaker was placed on the table, in a way like the signs and the streetlights were made and the way clothing was and the way traffic was. And I was like, there is so much. Right. in the first world that is not here in the third world, like I gotta make the connection. Like I gotta do something because I see it and I can't. One of the turning points for me was like vending machines. I was like, oh my God, ATMs and vending machines. Like we don't have them. You have to go to the supermarket. Storefront. Storefront, right?

14:05 And it just kind of like clicked in my mind that, hey, there's all these ideas that could be taken back. And for some reason, ever since I was little, Iman, I was always like thinking of business. Like I was five, eating my favorite chocolate Kinder Surprise and then selling the little surprise to my friends. I don't know what I got from my dad. That's hilarious. Yeah, I know. My dad was like, do we not give you enough, like, pocket money? Yeah. What's happening here? Why are you selling, you know, all your stuff to your classmates? And I just loved the thrill of being able to sell and make money on my own. Yeah. And, um... I guess a part of me was always like, this place can be better.

14:49 Iran can be better. And I'm one of those people that can make it better. Yeah. It kind of tied in with I missed my family. I missed my grandma. I just missed, you know, like my cousins being born, my aunts and uncles getting married. And at one point I was like, wait a second, this is what life is about. And I'm missing all of it. Yeah. Like, what's the joy of life if I'm not able to hold my baby cousin when she's born or when he's playing his first soccer game? Yeah. And I just wanted to experience life, to be honest with you. And it was, you know, these things coming together. One morning I woke up, I was working at an incredible VC in LA. I had a wonderful position in investor relations.

15:30 And I was like, guys, I love the job. Thank you for the opportunity. But like, I'm physically here, but mentally somewhere else. Like I need to go. And I literally, Iman, I packed overnight, got on the first flight, told my parents on phone. I'm like, I'm flying to like, what? My gosh. As a parent, that's terrifying. I know, right? And they're like, you don't get it. You're not a parent. You don't know how you're making us feel. I'm like, well, get yourself together because I'm like, bye, homies. And basically, my dad was like, okay, I'm not financially supporting you. Yeah. Because you have a house here, the car is here, your family is here, the table here.

16:12 You're deciding to do this, girl. You're on your own. Yeah. And it was hard, but it was like one of the best things that, you know, I ever experienced, one of the best decisions that I've ever made, to be honest with you. That's awesome. No, I mean, and kudos to you because it's a big decision, right? It's like... going against conventional thinking in a lot of ways. And you've had a big career. I mean, like you said, you've worked in VCs. You built Reconnect in Iran. You've founded Juul. What's the common thread between all of these things that you've done? Um, honestly, that's a really good question. Connecting people, which is what I love doing.

16:56 Utilizing my network. I'm a people person. Like I sit on a bus and I get off with new friends, you know, and there's always a part of me that's like, okay, if Iman needs help with something, how can I help? Maybe not today, but maybe next year I can help Iman with something, you know, and I just see life as, A collective. You know, I don't see life as me being successful. I see life as me and my surroundings and people, other people. They don't have to be people I love. They just have to be human. Yeah. What can I add? You know, what added value could I bring? And I think the connection between everything I've done, like even to this day, the VC that I was working at, on a weekly basis, I'm still in touch with my boss, which is great.

17:44 Yeah. Because that was back in 2012. It's 2006. And all these years I've weekly been in touch with my boss because he's one of my good friends now. Yeah. And. Ever since like all this stuff starting happening with Iran, I'm like, oh my God, I wish that like they could launch a fund to like help fund startups in Iran and help all these businesses in Iran. And I'm like, this is the reason why this guy's still in my life. This must be it. You know, one day, one day, one day. Yeah. And when I founded Jules, it was basically bringing all my friends who needed to be healthy together.

18:25 They started supporting me. You know, they started posting on Instagram and they were enjoying the product, too, because they were losing weight. They were getting healthier. And when we started hiring people, I was like, OK, we need to hire people that also need the help. Yeah. you know, come in here and leave better health condition. And yeah, I think that's honestly it. I mean, bringing value to people's lives and bringing people together and just utilizing my network for a better cause. Do you think that's something you were, that was like wired into or it's something you learned along the way or something happened and instilled it?

19:05 Because that's great that, you know, you're more of a community-based thinker than an independent individual, like focused on yourself type person. Yeah. You know what? I don't know if I can say I was born with it, but I was definitely born into it. And I was raised in this way. Like I remember one of my conversations with my grandpa, the first time that we flew an international flight was when I immigrated to Canada. We flew on KLM and, And we got there and then a couple of months later was my uncle's wedding. So we flew back to you and I was telling my grandpa and I'm like, grandpa, we were sitting in like the smaller seats, but there was bigger seats that were bed.

19:49 And I, I, I want to be in those seats. You know, I don't want to be back there with all the crying babies. I want to be up here where everyone's getting all these like, like they're being served in like the glass, not in like the plastic cups and stuff. Yeah. And he just like, basically, he's like, you know, that's great. But don't forget, you make more friends in economy because there's more people around you than you do. So I love that. Think about money. Think about, is there going to be people for you to share it with when you grow up? People are going to be around you to share it with because you're not going to enjoy money if you're all by yourself, all alone. You know, you got to have community.

20:30 Yeah. And that's something that kind of always stuck with me. And I think I just grew up in a family where community mattered. Like my grandma, she would be taking care of the elderly in our family that weren't like immediate family. You know, like she'd go to Tabriz to take care of like someone's mother because their kids wouldn't take care of them. Yep. I know this. Yeah. interesting okay cool like this stuff for other people and she's like it makes me happy yeah to help an older person whose kids have immigrated and i'm like but how are we even related to this person like i wouldn't even be able to make the connection right yeah and i think my brain just like you know all this stuff was um it wasn't taught it was just kind of like observed and watched and i grew up into it and And then when we immigrated, like I was bullied as a child, like miserably.

21:28 I was called the terrorist kid during like after the 9-11 events. I was the one that was colored differently because I was living in Calgary. I mean, my culture was very different than, you know, most people in Calgary. And I tried to always be the person that I needed that I didn't have. You know, like I needed to have friends. I needed people in school to stand up for me. I needed people to help me, to help my parents, to translate. You know, sometimes just somebody there to translate. So I just honestly like try to be that person that I needed for other people.

22:09 And again, to answer your question, maybe I wasn't born with it, but I was born into it and lived a life that now when I, you know, reflect and think about it, I'm like, okay, I was exposed to certain things for reasons. And this is how I see it. And this is how I'm gonna, you know, use it and give back. Yeah, no, I mean, that's beautiful. And then as you built Juul, which you ran for many years and have now kind of immigrated a lot of those ideas into your company here, what did it teach you about resilience that like no other experience could have? Because it's hard to start something from the ground up. Yeah.

22:49 I did not know what resilience meant until I started this business. Like actually the Farsi word for it, tabavari, like I had never heard it. I've never heard that word either. Yeah. Tub of Addy. Tub of Addy. Okay. It means resilience. And I learned it after starting the business. It must have been like the second or the third year. Because I was like, why isn't anything working out? Like, why is nothing easy? Like everything is. Every morning I woke up and I like put on my clothes and I felt like I was going to war. Honestly. And. It really taught me the definition of resilience is, hey, you're getting knocked down every day, but you just got to bounce back up like a spring.

23:36 You got to bounce up with a smile, like forgetting what happened, forgetting what knocked you down, forgetting what made you cry, what made you scream. I had one of my interns message me a couple of months ago, and she's like, one of the greatest things you ever taught me was one day you were screaming and crying and so angry in your room. I don't know what was going on. I don't even remember because it happened so long. I don't know which one she experienced, which one of the episodes, but she's like, you were so angry on the phone yelling at the top of your lungs and then crying. But you walked out and put candles on a birthday cake for me and saying happy birthday. I was like, nothing could happen. Yeah, that's so sweet.

24:17 Yeah. And she's like, when I think of resilience, I think of you because of that day. I can't even imagine you just wiped your eyes and you walked out and held a little birthday thing for me. And honestly, I think what I learned is that there is no end. I don't see an end. You know, some people are like, okay, that's it. Like, I'm shutting down the business. It's not working out. Like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, this is the game. Yeah. You know, you're not supposed to shut down. You're just supposed to refigure and reconfigure and re-re-reconfigure. That's right. Until there is another reason you need to reconfigure.

24:58 So I guess resilience to me has... changed its definition through the years. First it was adaptation, and then it was hardship, and then it was like, okay, this is resilience. And now it's just like, oh, this is like a really cool game. All right. It's a state of being now, you just exist. It's a state of being, yeah. That's the best way to put it. I mean, it's like putting in the Nintendo game, you know? The resilience. That's right. That's what we need today. What did you wish you had known at the beginning of starting a company? Like what would be advice you'd tell people or something that you'd say, okay, well, yeah, if you restart a company today, what would you want to know?

25:44 If it was easy, everybody would have done it. That's true. Yeah. You know, and. Everyone tells me they're like, why hasn't somebody done this? I'm like, it's not easy to do that. You know, so many people start a business and go bankrupt. 98% of businesses go bankrupt. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. 98% of people who have started a business going bankrupt in the first year, because it is not easy. And from my experience, starting a business was as painful as delivering a baby. It was not easy. Physically, mentally, emotionally, it challenged every cell in my body.

26:28 Yeah. And most people won't, they're going to be like, oh my God, you're making such a big deal. It's just a business, but you won't know until you get into it. And it's like raising a baby. And when it falls, it's like your kid falling down. And when it's not performing well, it's like someone telling your child that they're stupid and they're ugly and they're this, that. And when it's under pressure, you feel like your child is being bullied. At least that's how I felt it. I'm just speaking for myself here, but... It was, and you're a parent, you may be able to, um, clarify this for me too for me it was my biggest therapist because it was like the business would put its finger on like my weakest spots and it was like ram that finger in there stop you know to the point that I was like okay all right this is something I'm done I need to figure this out you know um like when my employees um would quit I would sit down and cry.

27:31 In the beginning, I'm like, what did I do to cause this person to quit? Like what about me and this company was so miserable that you had to quit? Like the pay wasn't enough, something about the atmosphere, something about the job, like what did I do? And I realized that maybe that's just like my childhood fear of rejection, you know, that I need to work on. That's just an example, but so many things would come up that I reflect on myself and realize that, hey, these are my weak spots. These are childhood traumas, these are societal traumas, these are immigration traumas, these are things to fix.

28:12 To be able to become that resilient person, become that leader that can help my team grow when they're going through this. And to be able to scale a company, Chris, you need to scale your own mind, honestly. And master compartmentalization, emotional control, mental control. And. To tell anybody that wants to start a business, one, if it was easy, everybody would do it. Two, it's going to be your biggest therapist. I know you just asked for one. But the last one would be most people are not going to treat your business like you are. And that's for a reason because it's your business. So don't expect it. Well, tell us kind of what happened with your business and what you're doing now in the United States.

28:58 Because you were successful in Iran, but you're here now. Yeah. Back in the US, which we're happy to have you. Thank you. So what happened was, honestly, I had eight intense years of building the business and growing it, and Building a business in Iran is so different than building a business in the U.S. Here, you would be worried more about your competition, your marketing, your sales, your business development, building a team, and being innovative. In Iran, I was worried about, do we have water today? Do we have electricity today? Do we have internet today? Do we have water threats today? Do we have sanctions today? I didn't even got to really think about sales and marketing sometimes.

29:41 I was dealing with logistics. Oh, my God, my barista didn't have their hijab on. Now I have to, I have been called into the police station. Just all these things that, like, you wouldn't think of having to deal with. You shouldn't be dealing. You should be focused on increasing your sales and paying more taxes. That's right. Improving your product. Improving your product. Yeah. But I was dealing with things that honestly exhausted me. Like it just got to a point I was like, I'm not learning. I'm not growing. I'm just solving really, really, really basic, logistic, foundational, infrastructural problems.

30:23 Yeah. Not mine to solve. They were meant to be solved by government. Municipality, provincial government, federal government. Yeah. Yeah. why do I need to have backup internet plan, backup water plan, backup gas plan? We had an oven that worked with gas, but because they would cut out gas, then we had to have a grill that worked with charcoal. You know, like we had running water, but I had to install water tanks in case water was cut off. I wouldn't have to stop production. I had to look into buying solar panels. So when they cut out the power, I have a backup plan. You know, it was like backup plan after backup. Man, you're ready to go to space, I think.

31:04 You're like... working with diminished resources and planning on, so you're ready. We're going to hire you at SpaceX or something to plan. Seriously, at one point I was like, okay, we've got to clean lettuce. This is the last plan. It's so disgusting. But I mean, it was about having plan A, B, C, D, and I just felt mentally exhausted. And I'm so far from... The person that I wanted to be, the things that I wanted to do, the impact that I wanted to make. Although like I was making a, our team was making a great impact on people's health. Yeah. It just wasn't mentally and emotionally enough for me.

31:46 I woke up one morning and I was like, I need to go somewhere where I can learn more. Yeah. Grow more so I can do more. Yeah. Do more for the world, not just the city and the country that I'm living in. So the next day I just packed a backpack, came back, left everything like literally just a backpack, which was like a charger. Yeah. Like basic stuff. Yeah. And came back here. The second day I was here, I attended a conference, met a couple of people there, and one of them recruited me. I started working at a health tech company called Huma in January of 2025.

32:30 Yeah. And I was there for about a year and learned a lot, a lot. Started working on my network, meeting people here, attending conferences, exhibitions, trade shows, seminars, whatever that would help me, you know, learn. Yeah. My first trip, I went to the J.P. Morgan conference in San Francisco and... I tried getting a Waymo and I couldn't like get into the Waymo when it had arrived. Like it had my neck spinning up top and I'm like trying to pull the handle. And there's this huge traffic like backed up behind me because me, like this idiot, cannot get into the simplest thing.

33:14 Yeah. And then I was so like stressed. I'm like, this is so embarrassing. Oh my God, I can't get into a car. And then this one guy like sticks his head out. He's like, hey, idiot, unlock it on your app. I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, there you go. I've been away from like technology for so long, you know? And I sat in the car and I'm like, I'm sitting in a car that doesn't have a driver. And two months ago, I was in a country struggling for internet to get access to YouTube and Instagram. Or to like ask questions from chat GPT. And I'm like, okay, I got to stay here. I got to learn because I know I can do more. I know I can be more effective as a human being for this world.

33:54 So that's kind of... how I ended up, you know, coming back here. And right now I'm just working on developing functional products, functional snacks, functional beverages with, you know, recipes coming in from my Persian background and modernizing it and trying to create flavors and tastes that are not just healthy and functional, but loved and enjoyed by all nationalities and cultures and religions. Yeah. I mean, you and I both share this, you know, being in kind of two cultures. Yeah. What, you know, when you go through this, like the experience of coming from Iran, building a life, navigating what it means to carry that identity in the various rooms that weren't necessarily designed for you or me, like you said, you were bullied back in high school.

34:46 I was bullied in middle school and high school. I guess what has that journey meant to you and how do you, how does it kind of influence what you're doing? Because now you're building a company using flavors and tastes from Iran, right? Which I think is great. But for the United States and beyond, right? Here in North America. So I guess how does that living across two places influence what you're doing today? It actually influences a lot. I think it's the essence of what I'm doing today. So building a company and being a kid that was, I was actually bullied all through elementary, junior high, high school. It kind of stopped diversity because I was old enough, you know?

35:29 I want to build a company where nobody feels like that. I want people to feel welcomed with what their political views are, their religion, their sex orientation, their beliefs, their language, whatever. I want to build a company where none of that matters. We come here for the greater good of society. We come here to build something great. So all of that I experienced shows up like this in my company. And that's actually how I built my company in Iran as well. I wouldn't let people talk about political beliefs, religious beliefs, their sexual orientation, nothing. I was like, we're here to create healthy products. And aside from that, I learned that me as an Iranian, as a Persian, as an Azeri Iranian, I come with so much flavor, so much culture and so much great herbal remedies and all of this, you know, science that is so wonderful.

36:32 bold and proven and used for many years, you know, amongst our culture. And I believe that the world needs to see it. You know, now that I am this resilient person who's been through this bullying, I'm going to be like, Hey, I want Lee Dockling, but Lee Dockling has something good to show you guys. And you know, they're going to love it. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, so I think the world needs to see what this Iranian essence and culture and flavor has to offer and what good it can bring to them and their health. And show people it's good to step out of the box, you know?

37:14 Yeah. I've experienced it myself. You have. And I think it's time for people to learn to be more accepting and more open to new flavors and new things. And I want to be that, you know, ugly duckling that brings it to the table. Yeah, I mean, and I would say that, you know, you and I both are proud of our heritage and our background as Iranians. And I hope that I'm serving as some sort of example for younger Iranians. What is the example you want to give to younger Iranian Americans who are watching you, right? Who are growing up here, looking to you as someone who's successful?

37:55 By the way, I never consider myself successful. I am just someone who went through a lot, but refuses to give up. I don't wanna get into it right now, but like immigration, my father's bankruptcy, again, immigration, being in a country where I was from, but I was really an immigrant again back in, like I was considered an expert in Iran. Oh yeah, yeah. Marine, right Farsi, like I had to bring all of that. I want everyone to know, Good things in life are not easy, but just because it's hard, it doesn't mean it's undoable.

38:38 You can be a female and be proud of being a woman and be proud of your smarts, be proud of your brains and use that to advance, use that to better the world and always have a cause. I think tying your life and your goals to a cause really motivates you no matter what. And like, I, you know, I was feeling really down recently the last couple of weeks because of everything that was happening. That's why I started hosting my lives. It wasn't really for people to watch and be hopeful. It was for me to learn and be hopeful from my guests. But then I exposed that to, you know, 60 something other thousand people on my social media, on my Instagram.

39:20 And that is my cause. The cause is do better, be better, be healthier, learn and contribute to every table, bring value to other people's lives. And that's what got me. out of bed when I was feeling so down, so depressed, or, you know, demolished, I would say. I was like, I have a cause. Like, I have to get out and get this done. For me, money is not the biggest motivator. It is a motivator, but it's not the biggest. It's that cause that, you know, gets me out of bed every morning. And I want... When people look at me to say, okay, she's got a cause. Yeah. If I tie my life to a cause, then no matter what happens, I'll be able to get up because there's something greater holding me accountable.

40:06 I love it. Yeah. No, that's good. Who would you say in your life has kind of believed in you the most? Ooh. Most would be my mom. Yeah. Yeah. My dad was always kind of like, yeah, you're not a doctor. So you're just kind of settling. Sure. Do whatever. I mean. You could have been an engineer. It didn't have to be a doctor. Doctor, engineer, or lawyer. Or lawyer. Yes. No, I know. I saw it all three. I got one of them. I wanted to be, you know, like a comedian, but here I am as a doctor.

40:48 So... See, you felt the American dream. You did good. I'm considered a total failure, I think. Oh, man. But my mom was always like, do what you love, and that's what success is. And some people think sometimes that I'm like hallucinating, where I'm like, this dysfunctional beverage that I'm developing now is going to beat out poppy. I know it is. I love it. It's going to be good. I'm going to get a great exit, and everyone's like, are you taking shrooms? Like, have you? I feel you, man. I mean, it's like me telling people I want to go to space. They're like, are you crazy? What do you mean? So it's fine. You have to have those aspirational goals.

41:30 And my mom is the only one that like hallucinates with me. You know? That's fantastic. Yeah. She's like, sure. She can do it. I raised this. That's right. She does what she wants. She doesn't listen. That's awesome. That's awesome. She's always really like deeply believed in me again to a point of hallucination. But yes, it's been my biggest motivator. That's awesome. And so what are you building towards right now that excites you? Is it this this drink, this, you know, healthy? So I'm building a couple of things right now. First of all, I'm rebuilding myself. I'm rebuilding a new person with new building blocks, with new soil, with new everything.

42:13 Other than that, I am building my company all over, functional snacks, functional beverages. Yeah. Yeah. In the U.S. though, not in Iran. In the U.S. No, Orange County, California. Yeah, here we go. Yes, we started with one functional snack line product. It is stuffed dates. So it's Coachella Valley grown dates that are stuffed with... nuts topped with cocoa, 100% cocoa, no sugar, and all natural products. And then we package them or we have cafes order for a little healthy side cake beside coffee so you can get like a little- Yeah, you can get the sugar without the bakery.

42:56 Exactly. All natural, all natural good products. Um, beside that, I'm developing a functional beverage that contains rosewater, saffron, and all the good Iranian herbal remedies, but tastes delicious. And, um, I'm trying to get people on board, uh, for the team right now. So trying to get a team together, building it up. And it's honestly, um, it's doing good. That's awesome. I mean, it seems to be. I see on Insta, you know, on your Instagram. If people are interested, they should look you up on Instagram. And your lives are great. If you speak Farsi, they're probably more valuable. But I think Instagram translates.

43:37 You know what I'm doing, Iman? As I was saying, I'm building parallel to this. I've been recording a podcast in secret. Awesome. Yeah, which is some episodes are Farsi. Some episodes are English. Some episodes are actually going to be Azari speaking. Oh, nice. Yeah, we're going to do subtitles and it's just going to be with people from all walks of life sharing their experiences. Yeah. So that's another thing that I'm currently working on and struggling with because I did not know how to edit stuff. No, yeah. It's all there. It's a lot. Yeah. I mean, it's fun. I'll tell you, out of all the things I do, the most fun I have is talking to people. And I've enjoyed the podcast piece more than...

44:20 a lot of the other things. Cause it's like, yeah, you get to hear about people's lives, which is, I don't know. It's interesting. You know what? Me too. I was always like the kid that got kicked out of class for talking too much and distracting everyone. Or I had to like sit in the teacher's desk. Yeah. And once one of my teachers was like, you got to find a job or you get paid for talking. Yeah. And that kind of stuck with me. So my entire life I was looking for a job where I could get paid for talking. You should have been a doctor. Yeah. This is your dad was right. I wanted to be a radiologist, you know, sit in a room and look at computers. And my dad was like, no, you talk too much. You cannot be a radiologist. This is not.

45:01 Yeah. So I get you, though. Yeah, I feel you, too. After podcasts like started picking up and, you know, they're huge right now. Yeah. I mean, I think if you're consistent, you yeah, you never know. It's like building Juul. It's like you start and you push and you reinvent and you grow. Yeah. You never know where it leads you, right? Yeah. And I'm enjoying the talking. Yeah. And I get to meet nice people like you. Exactly. Like you. Okay. Last question, because I want to respect your time. And we asked this from everyone on the podcast, but inside, what is a space inside yourself or out in the world that you're still reaching for? Ooh. You know, it's called a heart for space.

45:41 I gotta. Yeah. What's the word that I'm looking for right now? If you know it in Farsi, you can say it in Farsi. Tribudan, being enough. Yeah, being enough, yep. You know, I grew up in an atmosphere where I never felt enough. I always felt like I had to perform more, do more, achieve more. Yeah. And now when I tell myself that, hey, you are enough, it's like such a foreign concept to me still. Yeah. So finding enough. is the space that I'm working on right now.

46:22 I always felt like I had to overgive to my partner, overgive to my family, overgive to my friends, to my colleagues, to my employees. Yeah. And I'm coming to peace. I'm teaching myself to peace with, sometimes do nothing. And that's, that could be enough. And yeah, that's where I am right now. I love it. That's great. Well, thank you so much, Ayla, John. It's been truly a pleasure to have you on. And yeah, I'm sure we'll talk more. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Iman, for having me. And your questions were so like yourself, out of this world. You're too kind. Merci. Thank you for listening to A Heart for Space.

47:04 If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow the show so you never miss an episode and consider leaving us a review to let us know your thoughts. For more on my work in the pursuit of ambitious goals, visit aheartforspace.com and look out for my upcoming book, A Heart for Space. Until next time, I'm Dr. Iman Jahangir. And remember, sometimes the only obstacle to achieving an impossible dream is the courage to keep going.