Beyond the Limits of the Map | Richard Wiese

Like so many other people, the path isn't always straight. And there are always moments where you say, what am I doing? You know, I should have become a doctor. That was actually what I wanted to be in college. But, you know, here I am. I'm still standing. Welcome to A Heart for Space. I am your host, Dr. Eiman Jahangir. Join me as we uncover what it takes to reach beyond the limits of what we think is possible and turn the biggest dreams into tangible reality. Thank you so much today for coming on the podcast, Richard. I've been super excited to talk to you, not only because you're a fellow Explorers Club, seven-time president? Eight times. Eight-time president. Sorry about that. But also just your story and your history. So I guess the first question I'm going to ask, and then I want to hear kind of how you got where you got, but if you were going to introduce yourself to someone who had never met you, like at a dinner party or out, what would you tell them? You know, up until recently, I could just say I was president of the Explorers Club. But, you know, on top of being president of the Explorers Club, which, you know, to me is a whole other story unto itself because it's the ultimate alpha, you know, individual organization – But, you know, over the last few decades, I've also produced and hosted several national television shows that have been pretty successful. But, you know, like so many other people, the path isn't always straight. And there are always moments where you say, what am I doing? You know, I should have become a doctor. That was actually what I wanted to be in college. But, you know, here I am. I'm still standing, metaphorically. I'm going to say there's times where I look at your career and I said, I wanted to do that. I wanted to be in, maybe not an explorer, but an anthropologist or an archaeologist. And so that would have required exploration. But here I am being a doctor. Maybe the grass is always greener. Do you mind telling us, because I know your background. I know, I mean, lots of exploration starting at a young age, even at 11, Give me your origin story. How did you lead to this life? And then we can talk a little bit about some of the science and other things you've done. Yeah, thank you. So, you know, I was lucky. I had, first of all, having two parents that were there and were very active in their children's life is always a plus for anybody. But and I'm second generation American on both sides, Italian and German. So I had a little bit of the immigrant mentality sort of drummed into me. And even on my father's side, I'm the first male on my father's side to graduate college. My sister, the first. person on her side, but I always knew I was going to go to college. There's just no way that it wasn't going to happen. And so because of my father's profession, he was a 747 captain, I got to travel the world in a way that most people would never have seen it. And my father had a little bit of an adventurous streak, despite no one else in my family having that streak. My relatives truly hid in their villages in Europe and probably threw rocks at And so at a very young age, there weren't a lot of kids in my neighborhood, but I had, we grew up on the Stony Brook Harbor on Long Island, and I had acres and acres of waterfront that I could just wander by myself with my dog, build things, look for things. And then I was lucky. My father had this brilliant idea of taking me to climb Mount Kilimanjaro when I was 11, And, you know, we went and we did it. And it really sparked a further interest into learning about science and exploration. Again, because my father was a pilot, instead of talking about sports, we'd stand on the lawn, look at stars. He knew celestial navigation. We always talked about the weather. And even as a little kid, I always knew a ring around the moon meant like rain or snow within 24 hours. Yeah. I was lucky. My mother's brother, Dr. Richard Lanza, was the head of MIT's nuclear engineering department. And he was always available to talk about science. Again, because he grew up with immigrant parents, he was very good at communicating things in a very simple term. I got introduced to scuba diving. One of my sister's boyfriends at the time was building the first underwater reef in the Long Island Sound. At age 15 or 16, I asked if I would join and I was like, hell yeah. And so then I went to Brown University. I was a science major. You know, everything was going in the direction of becoming either a doctor or a pilot, but my preference was to be a doctor. And then fate hits a very odd bump in the road. A scout from Mademoiselle magazine came and asked me if I'd like to be in their August issue or their fall issue of their back to college thing. And suddenly, by the following year at Brown, I was jetting off to do photo shoots all over the world. I was making a lot of money for the 1980s. And I want to say... It was short-sighted because I'm making a six-figure salary in college. And this is in the 1980s. But it led to other things. I did Saturday Night Live. I did movies. I had a love scene with Brooke Shields. What does this have to do with exploration? No, I mean, it's amazing. Yeah, it's incredible. But it does because you took the, like... You took that road that wasn't defined. It's not like you planned that this was going to happen. Yeah, and you were like, you know what? I'm going to do it and see what happens. That's a lot of exploration. I am cutting out a lot of pieces of it, but I kind of knew that I wanted to. I had an interest in science still, and I was still going on. any kind of expedition I could, could be on. And so finally my big break was really to start hosting a show in Hawaii. Uh, good morning, Hawaii. I got hired then by Fox to do a show in Australia. And, um, I worked for Geraldo and, um, You know, eventually like a lot of other people who do shows and that you think your boss is an idiot and you say, I could do this better. I never forget flying over Australia with a friend of mine and I was like, man, if I was producing this show, it would do this, this, this, and this. And I went and did it. I pitched to ABC, you know, an idea for a show. You know, 11 years later, we did 208 episodes. We had 14 daytime Emmy nominations. And, you know, sort of on a parallel track to that, I'd gotten more and more involved with the Explorers Club. It was on the board of directors. A mentor of mine, Captain Fred McLaren, who was a Cold War nuclear sub-captain, asked me if I'd just be interested in being president of the Explorers Club. And I said yes, and I won. And, you know, it just opened up a whole other door to meeting my childhood heroes. I spent, you know, went to the desert with Scott Carpenter, you know, in the Sahara. I met Neil Armstrong, Sir Edmund Hillary, and it goes on and on and on and on. I mean, it is an incredible organization that I definitely want to talk about during all of this. I also want to say, I mean, you're still doing shows because you're on season 10 of Yankee, which... which is pretty, it's Weekends with Yankee, is that what it's called? Yeah, it's about New England. The regional magazine in New England is Weekends with Yankee. And because I live in New England, went to college in New England, I love doing this show almost as much as I like doing international stuff because I get to travel around all the places in New England Which I may have heard of, never heard about. And then because I'm able to sort of like test it, I often go back with my family. I have three teenage kids. I have a lovely wife who had a settle in life and married me. You know, she was getting to an age either she's going to have kids or she has to settle and she settled. That's good. I mean, I was watching one of your recent episodes and you guys were with the Clam Man. And then also your partner on the show, I believe her name. Amy Traverso. Amy. She was doing lobster rolls. And I was like, that was my favorite part of living in New England was the lobster rolls by far. Well, I don't know when this is airing, but for Mother's Day this year, I had... I couldn't get a reservation. So we ended up making lobster rolls at home, had it on an out. I live on a river and we had lobster rolls and I got the lobster roll recipe from filming weekends with Yankees. So I, even though Amy does most of the cooking segments, I actually take a lot of those recipes that I'm making at home. I like cooking. Very cool. Now, you told us your story, and I know that you made it sound easy. I went to this place and then that place, but as far as I understand, it's not easy to build a career like you had, even if it's with that initial breakthrough. And so I imagine that a lot of your experiences were shaped by your ability to persevere as things became difficult or uncertain. You didn't take that stable route of becoming the doctor. experience was the one that really required the most perseverance or shaped you to be like, okay, I can do this. I can do the hard things. Maybe it's just being 11 and climbing Kilimanjaro with your dad. I mean, because that's pretty amazing right there, right? To, to teach your son that you can do that at a young age. I mean, I always had unrealistic dreams ever since I was a kid. And I remember, um, you know, watching the Olympics and saying, wow, wouldn't it be great to be an Olympian? And so in junior high and high school, I was like an avid pole bolter. And then I became a javelin thrower. And I eventually got into college for it. But, you know, there's an example of, you know, people say chase your dreams, but sometimes, you know, I think rich people say chase your dreams because your dreams don't always pan out. And being an Olympian didn't pan out for me. And then, uh, You know, when you look at somebody's resume, you look at my resume and you go, wow, this guy's had a really successful life. But it is so checkered with failures. And I think that a defining term or it's not how you stand on the summit of a mountain with a flag beating your chest. It's how you pull yourself out of a crevasse. And so... you know, trying to break into television at that time was super difficult. You know, you really didn't have a hell of a lot of choices and there were definite gatekeepers and everybody's trying to get their first break. And there was really just so much perseverance on my part. And, you know, part of his serendipity and part of it, of these things you set into motion at a My parents were very present, but they also had expectations of their kids to be at a certain standard. So I always had a high standard for myself. And I think so much of the good things that happened to me is because... I was motivated to be a straight A student just because I didn't like the idea of being a B student, not for a love of learning. And so I had a base. And then so when I went to Brown, that was validation of I had a certain degree of intelligence. I had a science major. So when I was doing stuff like television commercials and modeling, I always felt, you I'm just as smart as any of these other people. Or I remember in college starting to visit some friends of yours in Nashville, Tennessee, who also are Hampton dwellers. And, you know, going into someone's house when they have servants or a butler greeting can be a little intimidating if you didn't grow up with it. But I always had the confidence that I was smart. So many things that happened to me because I had confidence and I felt like I had a base that I could support myself, at least emotionally, made me tougher. I just didn't fade because of someone's opinion. I think so often in life, people are going to tell you why it's not going to work out. And the one thing I didn't understand so well growing up where even there's a lot of people who don't want you to succeed. They say they do. But jealousy becomes such a driving mechanism even as an adult. And you can try to do all the right things and the more you succeed, the more that the sort of fangs of jealousy hit you. Yeah. I mean, I love both those premises. When I talk to kids, I'm often like, You can't be the one to discount yourself, right? And that's, in essence, what you're saying. You had enough faith and confidence in yourself that you could go be in these rooms with people that probably growing up you didn't think you would be hanging out at the Hamptons in a house full of service. Adults used to freak me out as a little kid. The one thing I wish I would have known when I was younger, adults want to help you as a kid. And, you know, I was just too freaked out. But, you know, I also think that... when you start, too many people wait for people to do things for them. They wait by the phone. They wait for the return of the email. And the one thing I wish I would have... found out earlier is that you are going to make your success best yourself. Like no one is thinking all day, you know, God, is Iman going to do this or is Richard going to do that? You really have to be the advocate. I always say to people, you got to be the author of your own book. You know, each chapter, you have got to be the author of that instead of letting the tide of life sort of sweep you by. Yes, absolutely. I love that. Was there a single expedition that you can think back to? Because you've gone to a lot of places. I mean, we could probably do an hour just talking about everywhere in the world you've traveled. But was there a single expedition that probably... rewired you the most? I'm not talking about maybe it was hard or, but even like, because you seem to have such a good way of telling stories and meeting with people from what I've seen in your work. Can you think of one of those that really was impactful to you, either like your interaction with nature or with other humans? You know, what you generally think is going to be the highlight of an expedition most often isn't. And what I've really found out, it's the people you meet along the way. And I think that, you know, for example, my wife is from South Africa. And after apartheid, she went back to South Africa and she started the Africa Foundation. Yeah. My wife is at heart and her DNA is very socially conscious. And I think that when you're younger, so much is about my experience, me getting to the summit. And I think even, you know, maybe becoming a father, I realized what a struggle it was for women around the world. And when you start to look around the world, there are people have it so much tougher. I mean, just... not even just women, just in general, tougher. And I've always been impressed, especially in Africa, on the creativity and spirit people have despite not having anything that you would deem as material. And so I think... As a human being, if you look at the universal laws of nature, if an organism or a human or a company do not continue to evolve and be relevant, it goes extinct. And so I've been conscious of evolving as a person, And part of that is being more socially conscious. Instead of thinking about, you know, what's in it for me, how I could boost somebody else. I think that volunteerism maybe has been the biggest sort of boom to my life. That it just seems like when you volunteer for the right reasons, for things you enjoy, that there are so many ancillary things that come back to you. I've just heard so many remarkable stories of survival that I feel sometimes that, uh, my life has been pretty easy. And you brought up the idea of you have to stay relevant or you go extinct. I mean, your show weekends with Yankee has been on for 10 seasons now. I mean, that's a long time in this industry. Uh, What do you think it takes to sustain that kind of passion, creativity, purpose over the length of time? Because you're right, you're also focused on New England. So it's a show about a very specific part of this country. So how have you maintained that and continue to maintain that? So the people who produce weekends for Yankee, and I can say that there's been a few people that I've worked for that I really thought cared about the subject and cared about the employees. Believe it or not, Geraldo Rivera might have been one of the best bosses I ever had. Whatever you think of him on air, he was actually a decent guy to work for. But the people from Weekends for Yankee, they're all New England people. They care about New England. They're nice people. And, you know, I found that the collaborative process there is pretty good, too. I think that... I mean, they really care about New England. They care about their community. They want to portray it in the best way. And because they didn't come into this as traditionally trained TV people, they've been, you know, open to more things. And I've always been appreciative that they've respected my producing skills and that they let me just do whatever I want sometimes. But... They love New England. They truly love. And I think when you do anything, if you come at it with that passion and love, even if the idea is a six out of 10, because you love it and you're invested in it, it becomes a 10 out of 10. Yeah, you got to bring the passion. Was there... Something that surprised you about discovering Wonder close to home? Because you've also been part of that community for a long time. I know you've traveled, but I mean, you started there. You live there now with your children. By choice. By choice, yeah. By choice. I live in New England. I love it. I think that... People feel like you sometimes have to go far to discover something wonderful. And I'll give you like my number one tip for if you have little kids. If you live on the coast, I love tide pooling. What's tide pooling? You wait till it's low tide and there's these vast mud flats. Cape Cod has great ones. It's really good ones where I live in Westport, Connecticut. And it's a moment of magic and discovery for people. Little kids are making little crab forts and little this and that. An adult might just like the way the sand feels between their tides. Because it's so momentary, and I know in Cape Cod near Brewster, because the sand flats are like a mile or two, people plan their activities about they'll go out and have drinks there. Kids are, you know, kicking a soccer ball. And so it's so simple in its premise. But every time you go out there, you're so happy because, you know, it's just the shimmering sand, the water running through it. And then after an hour, it's all gone. And so I love tide pooling. I've always been fascinated by Mount Washington and New Hampshire. It's one of the worst weather places on earth, which is crazy if you think it's only two hours from Boston. And yeah, it's only 60, 200 feet high. And it's had wind gusts of 231 miles an hour. So I've actually gone there with a lot of my friends who are Everest summoners. And, you know, we've been turned back because the weather has been so bad. I was going to say that's worse than Antarctica sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. I mean, that's wild. It is a crazy place. And on... I challenge your listeners or viewers on a winter day when they think it's really bad where they are, go to the mountwashington.org website and check out the hurricane force winds and the wind chills that are triple digit. That's wild. Now, you mentioned that you were president of the Explorers Club eight times. For listeners who don't know about it, what is the Explorers Club and why does it matter? Yeah, so the Explorers Club is a 124-year-old organization that was started by a bunch of dudes at that time trying to be the first to the North Pole. And when you walk into its clubhouse, which I always say is like Harry Potter's Hogwarts for adults. Yeah, it's a magical place. I took my son and he was like... What is this place? Yeah, he thought it was amazing. Oh, it's amazing. There's a sign when you first walk in, and it says, our members are the first to the North Pole, South Pole, on top of Everest, down to the Marianas Trench, which is the lowest point on Earth, and first on the Moon. And I remember my very first time walking in there in the 1980s, and I was going to a public lecture, and I could see the members lounge, but I could hear people talking about Amazonian spear tips or about... walking in space. And I thought, this is my tribe. These are the people that I want to hang out with. There's an understanding that when they mention a certain place on Earth that you're not asking where is that or what is it. And people kind of get you. Yeah, that's amazing. So what would you kind of, I guess, what do you think the purpose going forward of it should be? Because we have stepped on a lot of these places, a lot of cool people. I guess, what's the state of, exploration today? I guess that would be kind of the bigger question, right? Someone says, well, we've mapped this out and we've done that and we've done all of this stuff. Like what's next for exploration? I have thought about this subject a lot and it's people, it's diversity of thought. And so during COVID, when I had a lot of time to think and go on long walks, I thought, you know, we keep honoring the same people, Jane Goodall, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, which are all worthy of being, you know, celebrated. But I thought all of us, and Iman, I know that you've had the same experience, that you go someplace, you're in Tanzania, you're on Kilimanjaro, you're in Nepal, and you meet somebody who's incredible, and you say, oh, my God, this is one of the most incredible places you know, wildlife people I've ever met. And generally you come home and that's where the conversation stops. So I challenged our members to break the mirror of self-reflection. And instead of saying, look at me, I wanted them to say, look who I found. And so we started this program. The slogan is the Explorers Cup 50, 50 people who are changing the world that the world needs to know about. And I've been blown away by, you know, who some of the people are. There's a woman who studied snow leopards in Nepal with a baby strapped in her back. There's a guy who jumps out of a plane with thousands of saplings strapped to him. They call him the germinator. And he plants the Amazon. Wow. I was on weekends with Yankee and I met this woman, Susan Bauer, who started an organization called Old Ladies Against Underwater Garbage. She's 85 and she takes this troop of senior citizen women out diving in these ponds in New England and clearing garbage. So it's amazing. It's been satisfying for me to do the project. It's made the Explorers Club more relevant. I think that if we are going to champion the planet and animals and all sorts of things, you need a diversity of ambassadors who can do the messaging, not just an old white guy like me, but maybe a Nepalese woman or a woman from Cyprus or a Native American, because all of us identify with certain types of people, and not all PhDs or doctors reach everyone. So the more people who can communicate the message in a way that that population understands, the better for all of us. I love it. So it's exploration through understanding, really. I think so. And I think there's different ways in which we communicate exploration. It's not through the traditional boots in the mud, Yeah. Here's, for example, Amanda Gorman. She spoke at Biden's inauguration, a poet. And I heard her do Earthrise, and this is before she did Biden's inauguration. And I called her up and I said, you describe the Earthrise over the moon as from the Apollo 8 astronauts did in a way that is more meaningful to the fragility of Earth than I've ever heard a scientist explain it. And so, you know, that's an example of someone describing the human condition in a way that wouldn't be in a textbook scientist. Well, I think you're right. We've left the artists out of some of how we traditionally think of exploration, but they are such a key part of us humans understanding other humans, understanding our environment. I mean, it becomes such an important part of who we are, but it's not what we think of when we think of explorations. Well, look at it this way. There's 6,000 languages more or less spoken on earth. Half of those are endangered, but there are universal languages, food, music, art, dance, nature, where I can be in Tehran, Iran, and I may not speak Farsi, but if we're sharing a meal, there's an understanding. We're looking at those beautiful snow-capped mountains. You know, there's that same mutual feeling. And so there are ways we communicate with each other that aren't necessarily through spoken language. Absolutely. Now, on this podcast, we talk about pursuing dreams, often that seem unrealistic to others. And were there people early in your life who doubted you? Because as you said, you were going a very stable path when college came and then you had this opportunity and you seized it. And how did you stay committed to that vision that, okay, like, this is gonna work out. I feel like confident that if day by day I go, I'm gonna reach the summit of wherever you were trying to reach. You know what, there for sure, in fact, I remember interviewing for a TV, one of my first TV jobs in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey. The woman, yeah, hey, this woman came out and she goes, I've gotta be honest with you. She goes, I don't think you have a career in TV. And so I was like, oh, man, but I knew I could be better. I really did know I could be better. I was really so stiff at that point. I knew I could be better, and I had to figure out a way to get better. And people didn't have iPhones, and so it was hard to ever hear or know how you sounded on camera. And so, you know, I got the only job I could get at the time was luckily in Hawaii, which isn't a bad first job. And, you know, I could be awkward. And, you know, I've taken several advances in my career. And when I knew I needed to regain some skills, I didn't have too much pride that I wouldn't take a job that was considered less prestigious. So I think... you know, you're constantly having to reinvent yourself and strategize. You just don't want to feel like you're become a victim of inertia waiting for other people to make it happen. Well, and as a physical explorer, which you are, I assume you've had that happen on physical expeditions, too. I mean, you kind of mentioned trying to go up a mountain with former Everest climbers and having to turn back. Do you feel like exploration, physical exploration, is a good example of that internal push going forward? Mom, when I was a kid, whenever there was like a big snowstorm, I wanted to be outside in it. When there were a hurricane offshore off Long Island, my father and I would go to the beach just to see the huge waves. So there's been a part of me that's always wanted to feel the fury of nature. Yeah. Now, there's also, I think, what many people lack these days in an apprenticeship of skills. when Shackleton's people got stuck in Antarctica, each one of those men could take care of themselves because they all were very experienced people. You know, nowadays you can be anywhere on Earth within 24 hours, including in space, and that everything goes well until it doesn't. And so you hear about accidents on Everest all the time, and it's because people do not have that apprenticeship of skills. And sometimes ego gets in the way. I remember in 2003 or 2004, I was president of the Explorers Club. A friend of mine asked me if I'd go on a... a six-day canoe race with him and his friend. And because I was president of the Explorers Club, I thought, you know, hey, I could lead this, you know, canoe race. We got into some white water to where we got sucked under a tree, which is called a strainer. You know, it could have ended right there because once I got sucked under, I consciously thought to myself, you've got about 60 seconds, find the light. And I remember my father as a pilot had this wonderful ability of putting himself in a bubble of calm for that time. And I know I've run that drill in my head so many times that, okay, slow things down and, you know, figure it out instead of like being all panicky. And so there's an example where my ego got in the way of the reality of not being a good canoeist or understanding white water. But I was glad that I had some sort of skill set that my father taught me in terms of being calm in sort of emergency situations. I'm gonna be honest, I think you would have made a very good doctor. I would have loved to have been a, you know what I love about being a doctor? I just love the idea of someone has a problem and you're making them better, or hopefully making them better. I will tell you, you know, I left my medical career for about six months. early 2025 to go work at Blue Origin. It was great. This is a dream job, right? I always want to be like aerospace. But it was a large part of me that missed that day-to-day interaction with humans. Because it is fun. I talk to kids about who want to be doctors. I'm like, you have to want to do it because it's changing. And what it is today is not what it was 20 years ago when I started. And 20 years from now when I retire, it's going to be different. But yeah, it's like what you're doing with your show. You go and you meet people where they're at. And that's what being a doctor is, is you got to meet people where they're at and try to learn from them. But I mean, the mere fact that you're doing a podcast means that you like people. And I think that, you know, even doing a political, like people are going to politics or even heading up an organization. If you don't like people, then it's going to be painful and you're not going to like it. And so I wasn't always as outgoing as I am now or appear to be an extrovert. I was really nervous. I was shy. I didn't know where I sort of stood in life. I was, you know, I had three older sisters. So by the time I started dating, I was like afraid of women just because my sisters had been so brutal to all their boyfriends that, you know, it took me a while to get to where, you know, I am. And it's through a lot of experimentation, but through it all, I've always liked the process of meeting sincere people. I find now today in our political world, there's so many angry people and I've made the conscious choice that I want to be around enlightened people. And, you know, I mentioned before that I work with Yankee Magazine on that TV show. They're all nice. I like talking to them. If it's even not about work and it's just something social, I don't mind calling up Amy Traversa because she lives across from my uncle in Massachusetts. But just calling her up about something because I genuinely like her as a person. And so I'm sure you found that in, you know, medical practice, If you're constantly in conflict with people, man, it just so short changes the creative process. Yeah. And you're pre-thinking what I'm going to say if this person says this and that. And, you know, I just don't want to have to live in that world anymore. I agree. I mean, it comes up, I do a lot of speaking to different people, colleges, and lower, you know, high school. And I've been invited to places which maybe the institution is not what I would ascribe to, or like send my child to. But then I'm like, you know what, I should go and do it. Because I'm not talking about anything political. I'm talking about chasing dreams. And I like meeting people. And I like meeting people that have different ways of thinking than me. So it has, I agree, you got to do it. And you got to try to keep the emotions out of it. Not saying be A emotional, but just like the stuff that's triggering. What's the number one question you get other than how do you go to bathroom in space? I mean, I'm being a little honest. How long were you in space? And it's always so sad because it was a suborbital flight. You know what I find sad about that? Everybody I know, and I've known quite a few people who've orbited Earth, all of them talk, and you know this, the overview effect. Yes. And when you talk to astronauts, they tell you it's the most meaningful thing that they've ever done because they realize that there are no borders on Earth and that every person that's ever existed is right there. And it looks a lot more fragile, all of those things. So I think... For me, the 15 minutes in space isn't as interesting as in orbiting. I don't know if I'd want to live in space just because I think it's too many things that are trying to kill you. It's not a healthy place. Three days is good. Three days or 10 days around the moon. That's it. Enough, a few chest x-rays. Do you think you're going back into space? If I'm given the opportunity, I will go. I've applied to NASA... five times and I'm 45. So I've probably aged out, but I'll probably apply the next time and then call it, call it a day. But I'll happily go, you know, I like to explore. I know that an Explorer's Club flag is, is going soon to the Bikini Atolls without, without giving too much. I don't know how much of that mission is public. So I'm not going to talk too much about, but, um, they invited me to go. I would go exploring every day of the week, if I wasn't committed to both my profession and obviously my family, which makes, you know, I have a three and a half year old kid, so she enjoys my company. So three and a half, I found that four is the age of reason. When you have a four year old kid and you say, don't walk over that cliff, they probably won't. Whereas before that, man, they're just running, you know, and it's exhausting. Yeah. We were supposed to go to Iceland this summer, and she is a very active, amazing child, smart. But I looked at my wife, and I'm like, we should just push this off of here because it's not a good idea to go this year. Yeah, I know. That's right. That's right. We love the Cape. Well, I want to be respectful of your time because I know you have things to do in a little bit. But I have two more questions if you'll bear with me. One is, who in your life has shaped who you are today that has nothing to do with exploration? Well, you know, I know that when people say they're parents, that's the most obvious one. And maybe my father did have a lot to do, but my mother too. My mother was, man, she was my biggest fan. And... You know, in terms of confidence, my grandfather, my Sicilian, Corleone Sicily grandfather with the dark glasses and the big cigar and in the construction business, whenever I had good news, man, that was the person I called first. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I'm getting a little teary thinking about him. Yeah, he was just probably exuberant for you, right? He was. So he instilled a love of education in me. He was so proud. He only went to the eighth grade, and yet his son, my uncle, was the head of MIT's nuclear engineering department. Yeah. So he would take me to football games at Princeton, and, you know, he just instilled the idea of going to, like, an Ivy League school. And out of all the things that he was proud of, I just saw how much education meant to him. And so, you know, kids, to some degree, try to be pleasers. And so to give your grandfather your report card or something like that is such a good feeling. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, last question. And we ask this of everyone. So, you know, it's a heart for space. What is the space inside yourself or out in the world that you're still reaching for? My gosh. Well, first of all, I think that because I have three teenagers, I like the idea of shared experiences and sort of putting them on a good footing. And then, you know, in terms of like personal dreams, Travel, I have three expeditions. In fact, I invite you on one of them if you want to come. Let's go. I'm going to an uncontacted place, unexplored in the Amazon this summer. And I'm also going to Greenland same summer. But on Cape Cod, near Provincetown, a very renowned underwater archaeologist, we think we may have found a Viking burial site. And we know exactly where it is. We use ground penetrating radar. It's in the basement of somebody. We know where it's only a foot from the surface. And so I'm just looking for an excuse to go up to Cape Cod and, you know, pull that concrete slab out and see what we find. That's incredible. I love it. That's a good answer. Well, I appreciate you coming on this show today. I really, you know, it's a pleasure to meet you. I've looked up to you and your work for so long. So thank you for taking the time today. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to A Heart for Space. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow the show so you never miss an episode and consider leaving us a review to let us know your thoughts. For more on my work in the pursuit of ambitious goals, visit AHeartForSpace.com and look out for my upcoming book, A Heart for Space. Until next time, I'm Dr. Iman Jahangir. And remember, sometimes the only obstacle to achieving an impossible dream is the courage to keep going.